What happened to 2d

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jon
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What happened to 2d

Postby jon » May 27th, 2016, 6:01 pm

Last night I had a dream that there was this new game maybe for the Neo Geo, and it was a shooter, like a cross between Contra and Metal Slug, and it was really intense and had way better graphics than anything I'd ever seen. And it made me think, boy, it would be so awesome if 2d didn't for all intents and purposes get discontinued in late 1995. Of course, the "reason" is that people were so interested in 3d that they'd just stop all the interesting advancements that were going on with 2d. I remember a couple years ago, I did extensive research and found out that the Super Mario 2d games never experienced a drop off in popularity, even with a 12 year absence on consoles, and that basically, it was a myth that people didn't like 2d anymore. Sometimes I feel guilty that I haven't played many video games that came out the last 15 years. But I realize that if 2d was still around and developers were doing interesting things with it, I'd be one of the biggest gamers around. It's time for a comeback.

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scotland
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby scotland » May 27th, 2016, 6:56 pm

What is it about the decline of 2D that most bothers you?

    the change from simple dpad/shoulder button navigation to analog sticks
    the sharp decline of genres like schmups and beat'em ups
    the drastric changes in other genres like platformers and fighters
    the rise of genres of first person shooters and action adventure games like Tomb Raider
    the aesthetic changes of sprites to polygons, especially low polygon count graphics
    the decline of Sega arcade focused games

Also, didn't the Gameboy line of portables continue 2D (and 2D isometric) gameplay? Games like Links Awakening, Pokemon and Advance Wars are 2D. Also, the decline of 2D between the 4th and 5th generation was not the first or last time home video games had a notable shift. Nothing wrong with appreciating games of a bygone era (that's why we are here), but there have been other shifts that left gamers behind too. Play any Zork clones lately?

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Hardcore Sadism
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby Hardcore Sadism » May 27th, 2016, 10:56 pm

There's nothing left in 2D that hadn't been explored. It's been the "original" virtual landscape since, well, man were capable of producing artwork *shrugs*.

I don't think there's a single unsung note for 2D gaming. It isn't worth an unhealthy obsession.

Sut
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby Sut » May 28th, 2016, 2:59 am

Did 2D ever really die ?
I'm checking my PS3 and PS4 and I own 1942 Counterstrike, Bionic Commando (demo), Strider (demo), Pixeljunk Racers, Tembo the Elephant.

Sonic 4 was 2D, the games are still there admittedly they are primarily digital downloads these days but the niche is healthy enough to keep producing games.

Hardcore Sadism wrote:There's nothing left in 2D that hadn't been explored. It's been the "original" virtual landscape since, well, man were capable of producing artwork *shrugs*.

I don't think there's a single unsung note for 2D gaming. It isn't worth an unhealthy obsession.


That's an interesting point, if I'm honest I prefer 2D game mechanics I can pick them up much quicker than 3D games. I usually put that down to having grown up with 2D games. For example I can beat 'hard' 2D games like Revenge of Shinobi but I'm finding 'hard' 3D games like Shinobi 2002 face slammingly difficult.

But as Hardcore asks is there anywhere left for 2D to go ? Would it just be refinements of existing games (like my modern 2D collection) or is there some unexplored gap 2D has yet to go ?

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scotland
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby scotland » May 28th, 2016, 7:06 am

Hardcore Sadism wrote:There's nothing left in 2D that hadn't been explored. I don't think there's a single unsung note for 2D gaming. It isn't worth an unhealthy obsession.


May as well ask whats left for 3D? Answer: who knows?

As you said, 2D is ancient. Have we had a 2D game with Cro Magnon man art? Or a Salvador Dali look? Or stylized egyptian? Options are as endless as art. Then add in endless musical options. Then add in control options, like have motion controlled or rhythm based 2D control been well explored? Or merging 2d and 3d - a game like Mr Limpet or Cool World, where there are 3d worlds and 2d worlds in the same story.

There are endless ways 2d can be explored still. I am not encouraging an obsession, but the potential is vast in 2d because its as much an artform as, say, animation.

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VideoGameCritic
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby VideoGameCritic » May 28th, 2016, 8:24 am

I never felt like the 2.5D space was ever fully explored. You got the fun of 2D with the grandiose graphics of 3D. Remember Pandemonium (PS1)? I always thought it would be cool to redo a game like Contra with photo-realistic graphics. Then again, that would probably look gray and drab compared to what they could do with colorful stylized graphics.

The problem with the GBA games (and a lot of modern 2D games) is that the developers think if they toss in a checklist of conventional elements the gameplay will be just like a classic game. Actually what made the old games great was that they were extremely well designed. Not just anyone who can put objects on the screen can make a good 2D game. That takes time and effort.

jon
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby jon » May 29th, 2016, 1:24 am

Of course 2d hasn't been fully explored. It basically got discontinued with the arrival of the Playstation. The most "technically advanced" 2d console, besides the Neo Geo, was the SNES, which was released in 1991. And that was quite the sprite pusher, right? Oh wait, I hear, there's all these GBA games. And guys in their basement, with help from their uncle, hard at work on the next technical marvel. I'm talking about putting large sums of money into a 2d powerhouse to shake up the video game industry. Which I believe could be successful.

Sut
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby Sut » May 29th, 2016, 2:21 am

The Saturn and Dreamcast could throw sprites around Jon, try Guardian Heroes and Power Drift on Saturn.

But I too would like to see an unashamed 2D Sprite game released. Not 2D with cell shaded 3D characters but proper Sprite artwork.

Sonic on steroids indeed or a Streets of Rage with a Guardian Heroes level of chaos and sprites on screen. A Castlevania in the style of Symphony of the Night.

jon
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby jon » May 29th, 2016, 4:58 pm

Thanks for the suggestions "Sut". I've come to the conclusion that the Saturn's 2d games are the closest anyone's come in quality to the arcade experience, besides the Neo Geo. I think of Sega as not that different than SNK.

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velcrozombie
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Re: What happened to 2d

Postby velcrozombie » May 29th, 2016, 9:49 pm

How did you feel about Shovel Knight, Jon? I think we all felt that it was a master class in how to make a classic-style 2D game that didn't feel like a rehash or a nostalgia grab.


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