Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Reserved for modern gaming discussions.
Sut
Posts: 607
Joined: April 8th, 2015, 4:23 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby Sut » July 21st, 2016, 9:38 am

As Actraiser says the lead platform is always the development focus then it's ported down or sideways to other platforms.

The ST was the lead platform for 16-bit computers for a while, go on any Amiga site and there will be criticisms of 'another lazy ST port' because at that point in time more users were buying ST games. This eventually tipped and the Amiga became the lead platform again down to the size of the active user base, then it was the ST's turn to receive downgraded ports of Amiga games rather than games that were built to the ST's strengths.

I imagine this was the same with all generations of consoles/gaming computers.

User avatar
scotland
Posts: 1938
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 7:33 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby scotland » July 23rd, 2016, 6:44 am

I realize video games are a visual media, but this devotion to graphics is unbalanced.

Other media like manga and comics are even more visual, but no one disdains the visuals of just a few years before. In fact, some of the old visuals of American comics are considered treasured artwork. Sure, there are times of great visual change, like black and white tv to color or sprites to polygons, and Aug Reality and Virtual Reality might be the next continent of graphics, but this gen and last are not that big a difference to disparage.

Sonicx9
Posts: 494
Joined: April 27th, 2015, 6:37 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby Sonicx9 » July 27th, 2016, 5:11 pm

ActRaiser wrote:I know Titanfall which was a huge Xbox One next gen game had zero effect by having a 360 port.

The reason I know that is that is that's what the developers stated. A completely separate studio did the port. The Xbox One was the lead platform. The secondary studio did their best to replicate what it could.

Short of the Wii U example, in most cases the lead platform determines direction. And then you outsource the porting work to other studios. Based on the logic stated the SNES Doom was holding back the PC Doom. That's not how the real world operates.


That is odd because it was announced for the PC/Xbox One/and Xbox 360, and they where in development back to back. And many people have complained on forums for not looking/playing like a true next gen game with sub 1080P resolution at 792P resolution/low system requirements on PC. And the only thing that was maybe next-gen is frame rate on PC/Xbox One, but that is not enough to consider it a proper next-gen game.

As for SNES Doom, that was announced/developed 2 years after the PC original, as the developers did not have the SNES version as an afterthought at the time period making the PC original.

scotland wrote:
ActRaiser wrote:The reason I know that is that is that's what the developers stated. A completely separate studio did the port. The Xbox One was the lead platform. The secondary studio did their best to replicate what it could.


Thanks Actraiser. I am not in the biz, and maybe it varies by developer. I thought a game like Disney Infinity, with the recently shut down 300 person studio was only working on the one thing and did all the ports in house. My guess would be that doing all the versions in house would reveal economies in the development lifecycle, such as tooling play balance.

Of course, even if they do all the versions in house, that doesn't mean anyone cripples the modern version so a downport doesn't look inferior. That just doesn't make sense.


The Disney Infinity 2.0 and 3.0 are low-budget kid games, so it does not matter on what systems it was released for at the time period.

Sut wrote:As Actraiser says the lead platform is always the development focus then it's ported down or sideways to other platforms.

The ST was the lead platform for 16-bit computers for a while, go on any Amiga site and there will be criticisms of 'another lazy ST port' because at that point in time more users were buying ST games. This eventually tipped and the Amiga became the lead platform again down to the size of the active user base, then it was the ST's turn to receive downgraded ports of Amiga games rather than games that were built to the ST's strengths.

I imagine this was the same with all generations of consoles/gaming computers.


Except the big differences was companies put more of their efforts on the more powerful systems back in the day. And back then down-ported stuff was very gimped/water down in comparison because the hardware differences where much bigger difference then vs now. The 8th gen is the first generation of consoles where 97% of the multi-platform games are being properly down ported to the PS3/Xbox 360/PS Vita/3DS/New 3DS/Mobile. Something that was mostly unheard of back in the past console generations.

scotland wrote:I realize video games are a visual media, but this devotion to graphics is unbalanced.

Other media like manga and comics are even more visual, but no one disdains the visuals of just a few years before. In fact, some of the old visuals of American comics are considered treasured artwork. Sure, there are times of great visual change, like black and white tv to color or sprites to polygons, and Aug Reality and Virtual Reality might be the next continent of graphics, but this gen and last are not that big a difference to disparage.


I get that this gen and last are not that big a difference to disparage as far as hardware goes. But back then, did they make the same Sonic 1 and 2 from the Sega Genesis to the Sega Master System/Game Gear, no it was a 100% different game with different graphics/game-play. Did they make Super Smash Bros. Melee from GameCube to the Game Boy Advance, no it would not work. Did they make Super Smash Bros. Brawl, for the Nintendo DS, no, that would be impossible to do. Did they make Sonic Adventure 1 for the Sega Saturn. If it happen, it would have been the 5th Gen equivalent of the terrible PS3/Xbox 360 version of Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor. It was very different back then when the big games where only developed with the highest standards as it was not realistic to do ports for less advance systems.

Give me your thoughts on what I just wrote?

Sonicx9
Posts: 494
Joined: April 27th, 2015, 6:37 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby Sonicx9 » July 30th, 2016, 1:00 pm

It would be nice if people replayed to my last post above?

matmico399
Posts: 480
Joined: November 25th, 2015, 6:11 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby matmico399 » July 30th, 2016, 2:22 pm

It would be nice if I had ten mill in the bank too...

Sut
Posts: 607
Joined: April 8th, 2015, 4:23 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby Sut » July 30th, 2016, 4:50 pm

Sonicx9 wrote:But back then, did they make the same Sonic 1 and 2 from the Sega Genesis to the Sega Master System/Game Gear, no it was a 100% different game with different graphics/game-play.


Yes but for every different adaption I can name probably 2/3 downports from Mega Drive to Master System:- Altered Beast, Golden Axe, Alien Storm, Road Rash.

Sonicx9 wrote:Did they make Sonic Adventure 1 for the Sega Saturn. If it happen, it would have been the 5th Gen equivalent of the terrible PS3/Xbox 360 version of Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor.


No but to be fair the Saturn was dead in the west commercially by that point. Conversely Sonic 3D Blast was released for both Saturn and Mega Drive, same with Virtua Fighter 2 which also downported to the Mega Drive and even Game Gear.

User avatar
Atariboy
Posts: 516
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 11:07 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby Atariboy » July 30th, 2016, 5:09 pm

Sonicx9 wrote:It would be nice if people replayed to my last post above?


I don't see any validity in your argument.

For instance there's your Titanfall bit. Despite evidence to the contrary, you've proclaimed that example as irrelevant just because like many Xbox One games, it's not full 1080p. You've presented no evidence that the existence of another developer adapting it to the Xbox 360 constrained the lead developers in any way.

And again like myself and others have already said, this indie game that you feel is such a prime example for your argument is hardly a technically ambitious piece of work. It's incredibly difficult to buy into the suggestion that just because it was a cross-gen multiplatform release that it held them back from meeting their goals due to the disparity in hardware resources.

Did it likely result in a hit in quality because they stretched themselves too thin across too many platforms with too small of a team? Sure, I'd buy into that and find it very likely. Did the horsepower of last-gen hardware play into it in any way? I very much doubt it.

And really, as the Xbox 360, Playstation 3, Wii U, and 3DS fade from the scene, do we really even need to debate this one way or another? They're all on the fast track out, so regardless of any merit your idea may or may not hold, the question is quickly becoming a moot one either way.

Sonicx9
Posts: 494
Joined: April 27th, 2015, 6:37 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby Sonicx9 » July 31st, 2016, 12:28 am

Sut wrote:Yes but for every different adaption I can name probably 2/3 downports from Mega Drive to Master System:- Altered Beast, Golden Axe, Alien Storm, Road Rash.


But those ports were awful compared to their Mega Drive versions in terms of graphics/game play quality. In this Gen, we are seeing PC/PS4/Xbox One/Wii U games being down ported to the PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita systems that are virtually neck and neck in quality 95% of the time compared to the past, a big difference.

Sut wrote:No but to be fair the Saturn was dead in the west commercially by that point. Conversely Sonic 3D Blast was released for both Saturn and Mega Drive, same with Virtua Fighter 2 which also downported to the Mega Drive and even Game Gear.


But Sonic 3D Blast was made with the Mega Drive in mind first. and was ported to the Sega Saturn at the last minute because of what happen to Sonic Xtream on the Sega Saturn back in the day, and Virtua Fighter 2 on Mega Drive was a different water down 2D game compared to the Sega Saturn version at the time period, and the Gane Gear game you are referring to is Virtua Fighter Animation aka Mini in Japan, and has nothing to do with any version of Virtua Fighter 2.: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/virtua ... ghter2.htm

Atariboy wrote:
I don't see any validity in your argument.

For instance there's your Titanfall bit. Despite evidence to the contrary, you've proclaimed that example as irrelevant just because like many Xbox One games, it's not full 1080p. You've presented no evidence that the existence of another developer adapting it to the Xbox 360 constrained the lead developers in any way.

And again like myself and others have already said, this indie game that you feel is such a prime example for your argument is hardly a technically ambitious piece of work. It's incredibly difficult to buy into the suggestion that just because it was a cross-gen multiplatform release that it held them back from meeting their goals due to the disparity in hardware resources.

Did it likely result in a hit in quality because they stretched themselves too thin across too many platforms with too small of a team? Sure, I'd buy into that and find it very likely. Did the horsepower of last-gen hardware play into it in any way? I very much doubt it.

And really, as the Xbox 360, Playstation 3, Wii U, and 3DS fade from the scene, do we really even need to debate this one way or another? They're all on the fast track out, so regardless of any merit your idea may or may not hold, the question is quickly becoming a moot one either way.


As for the Titanfall bit, here are proof that the game does not look, or feel like a proper next-gen game: http://gamerant.com/titanfall-not-plann ... riginally/ and http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/18008 ... ly-similar

As for Mighty No. 9, if you looked at an early demo from 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UXDiQrgI6M the graphics look over 9000 times better and look way more like a proper next-gen game compared to the final release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIzKp30x088 which looks like a bad shovel ware PS2 game which is awful for something on the current gen consoles/PC in the year 2016. And this is not the first time with graphical downgrades because of weaker hardware, look at Watch Dogs in 2012 compared to the final release: http://gamingdeath.com/wp-content/uploa ... Hype-4.jpg Can you spot the differences people?

If you want an Indie Game with impressive next-gen graphics/game play, take a look at Yooka-Laylee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SCDDPCLEsE (make sure you watch in 1080P60 for best results) the games lead console version is Wii U, but it hard to believe because it is using 100% of the extra Wii U horsepower, and there is no way in hell the Xbox 360/PS3/PS Vita/New 3DS are going to Handel something this impressive from the trailer shown in game. Proving that even the more under powerd Wii U can do more then the Xbox 360/PS3 in the right hands.

I have been looking at many forums and many people have been ranting that the next gen consoles are not delivering enough proper next gen games excepts for exclusives, multi-plats made with the higher standards.: https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/com ... h=52570d7b

User avatar
scotland
Posts: 1938
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 7:33 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby scotland » July 31st, 2016, 12:37 am

Sonicx9 wrote: The Disney Infinity 2.0 and 3.0 are low-budget kid games, so it does not matter on what systems it was released for at the time period.


Disney Infinity was done by a 300 person studio, owned by a massive multinational entertainment juggernaut, leveraging huge IPs like Disney characters, Marvel comics characters and Star Wars. This is not low budget.

Being a kids game is true, but not relevant. Kid and family gaming is huge business. Pokemon Go is a kids game, but the biggest gaming story of the year.

It would be nice if you did not lightly dismiss a counter example with some pejorative, its rather pointless to continue discussing since any new counter example would meet the same ignoble fate.

User avatar
Atariboy
Posts: 516
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 11:07 pm

Re: Looks like its time for Telltale/Select Indie/Japanese Dev games to give up on PS3/Xbox 360/3DS/PS Vita now!

Postby Atariboy » August 1st, 2016, 4:03 am

Sonicx9 wrote:As for the Titanfall bit, here are proof that the game does not look, or feel like a proper next-gen game: http://gamerant.com/titanfall-not-plann ... riginally/ and http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/18008 ... ly-similar.


No, all that says is that it started out as a Xbox 360 and PC release and reaffirms that the developer tasked with adapting this to the Xbox 360 did an admirable job of things while the Xbox One lead possibly didn't do the best job at taking full advantage of the Xbox One's resources.

There's nothing there "proving" that it's not a "proper" next-gen release.

Sonicx9 wrote:As for Mighty No. 9, if you looked at an early demo from 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UXDiQrgI6M the graphics look over 9000 times better and look way more like a proper next-gen game compared to the final release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIzKp30x088 which looks like a bad shovel ware PS2 game which is awful for something on the current gen consoles/PC in the year 2016.


Read the description of the video that you linked to.

Again, you've failed to demonstrate that this one was held back by last-gen support. That the final game isn't as impressive looking as hoped simply isn't proof of what you're saying. This isn't a very complicated concept.

Find something like an interview from a member of the team that blames the existence of this game on less powerful platforms as the reason for its disappointing technical prowess in finished form, and then we'll talk. Until then you're just speculating with nothing to support your viewpoint for what went wrong with this game.

Sonicx9 wrote:And this is not the first time with graphical downgrades because of weaker hardware, look at Watch Dogs in 2012 compared to the final release: http://gamingdeath.com/wp-content/uploa ... Hype-4.jpg Can you spot the differences people?


Just because the final release doesn't look as impressive as something like a rendering done early in development is hardly affirmation that it was constrained for the reasons you've stated.


Return to “Modern Gaming”