PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

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Adamant1
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Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby Adamant1 » January 7th, 2009, 12:57 pm

The CD-i didn't flop, that's just internet gossip working from the fact that it was supposedly a video game console. The CD-i was a multimedia device and was intended as a cheaper alternative to a computer. I mean, look at a list of released titles, games (not counting educational kindergarten titles, which was as large a focus point as traditional video games) make up roughly 15% of the library. How could it be mistaken for a pure video game console? The PC is much much more game-focused today than the CD-i ever was, or ever tried to be.

Sure, it didn't take the world by storm, but it did relatively decently. Not in the video game market, true, but that was never it's focus point either. It was also largely focusing on Europe, which makes it easier to see as "unpopular' by the American-filled internet. You see the Turbografx/PC Engine referred to as a flop all the time too, when it was a major contender in the 16-bit era, and did better than the Mega Drive in Japan.

Tourian

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby Tourian » January 7th, 2009, 2:18 pm

I have a 42" 720P plasma and the difference between blu-ray and upscaled DVD is huge.  DVDs look dull and murky by comparison.  Even for older movies:  2001: A Space Odyssey (1968), The Searchers (1956), Blade Runner (1982), The Seventh Seal (1957), The Man Who Fell to Earth (1976) all look phenomenal on blu-ray.

Even my fiancee, who is content watching 4x3 480i broadcasts of films stretched to 16x9 (I fix it for her if I catch it) has to admit that blu-ray is a huge upgrade, which is an especially tough admission since she is not keen on seeing me re-buy my 1000+ DVD collection.

Check out this comparison:

WARNING: Link contains (tasteful) nudity
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews17/man_who_fell_to_earth_dvd_review.htm



Tourian

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby Tourian » January 7th, 2009, 3:50 pm

[QUOTE=Paul Campbell][QUOTE=Viper82]One thing I've noticed (and no one has mentioned) is that Blu-Ray discs, while not a huge step up graphically, sound absolutely terrific. The sound quality is so much better, especially on a good quality HDTV.  I think that's something that nearly everyone overlooks.
[/QUOTE]

Are you saying this out of personal experience or just what you have heard from other people or advertisers?  I promise you that if you have the same movie on two different systems, one is Blu-Ray, one is not, that they will sound the same.  There is absolutely zero evidence that the human ear can detect higher resolution audio than what a CD or DVD can provide, and I have done more double-blind tests than the average person will ever have time to do.  Anybody who thinks they hear a difference are only assuming they do.  And even if there WAS a difference, it would certainly not be discernible through the built-in speakers of a flat panel television.  One reason for this misconception is that so often people see Blu-Ray for the first time through a decent quality surround system (or at least a step up from what they are used to).This is like a modern-day version of The Emperor's New Clothes.   I am now demo-ing my Home Theater installs using Blu-Ray versions of the same movies I used on DVD.  I am VERY familiar with these scenes and what they sound like.  Trust me.  They sound the same.
[/QUOTE]

Even "No Country for Old Men"?  I am no audiophile, but that sounds better than any movie I've watched on blu-ray.  It seems like the difference between the high volume noise and low volume is greater than I ever noticed on DVD.  Dialogue is normal volume, gunshots and car engines are terrifying (and crystal clear).  I don't have the DVD to compare with though.

I also believe that SACDs can sound better than normal CDs.  The 5.1 mix of Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust", with the center channel reserved entirely for Bowie's vocals, really makes you believe that Bowie is in the room with you!

Sudz1
Posts: 816
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby Sudz1 » January 7th, 2009, 7:50 pm

I watch standard DVD's upscaled to 1080i on my Sony Grand Wega LCD 60", and they look (and sound) fantastic.  Having watched Blu-Ray, can I see a difference?  Yes.  But it's a fairly minor difference and nothing that makes me feel like I need to jump on the BluRay bandwagon.  The jump from VHS to DVD was monumental; the jump from DVD to BluRay is miniscule by comparison.  Eventually I'm sure I'll move to BluRay simply because it'll be the dominant format, and as my old DVD players go on the fritz I'll simply replace them with BluRay.  But I honestly don't understand the huge push to get this technology into the marketplace when everyone is perfectly happy with existing DVD's.
Sudz


andrew

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby andrew » January 7th, 2009, 8:32 pm

[QUOTE=Tourian]

I also believe that SACDs can sound better than normal CDs.  The 5.1 mix of Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust", with the center channel reserved entirely for Bowie's vocals, really makes you believe that Bowie is in the room with you![/QUOTE]

The difference in sound is only as good as your system. Vinyl sounds better than cd's too but if you have a bottom grade system, you won't notice.

Blu-Ray have better sound, but if the majority will use their television speakers you won't hear any difference.

Blu-Ray will take forever to become the main option for movies though. Blu-Ray sales aren't that great and the startup cost is far greater than VHS to DVD. Not to mention the monumental gap between the DVD library and Blu-Ray library. Blu-Ray's will look better, but a visual upgrade is minor compared to going from sequential access on VHS to random access on a dvd

Cataclysm1
Posts: 103
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby Cataclysm1 » January 8th, 2009, 5:36 am

You know it is over when the defense of the PS3 ends up being the defense of Blu-Ray!

Too bad Blu-Ray is on the way of the dodo. Digital downloads are rapidly gaining in popularity. Digital downloads will be to the Blu-Ray that tried to upgrade from the DVD of what MP3s were to the Sony Mini-disc that tried to upgrade from the CD.

Blu-Ray will soon join HD-DVD in the dust-bin of history.

Tourian

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby Tourian » January 8th, 2009, 2:22 pm

It will definitely be a long time before the blu-ray library catches up with DVD, which is why I will continue to buy some DVDs.  But I hope blu-ray does catch up one day, slowly but surely.  I love the format and fully support it.  I am enjoying home viewing like never before.

I think that digital downloads taking over is even farther out than blu-ray.  When will it be feasible to download 20-50 GB blu-rays in bulk?  Or even 4-8 GB DVDs?  And how do I take it over to my friends house to watch?  Assuming I can get by the copy-protection, I would probably want a multi-terabyte ipod handy, or burn it to a, um, blu-ray disc.  And I have to sit and wait for the file to transfer/burn.  Yuck!

Also, stand alone blu-ray players are really coming down in price, which bodes well for the format, but not for the PS3, assuming many buy them for blu-ray capability alone.

Paul Campbell

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby Paul Campbell » January 8th, 2009, 3:28 pm

[QUOTE=Tourian]

[QUOTE=Paul Campbell][QUOTE=Viper82]One thing I've noticed (and no one has mentioned) is that Blu-Ray discs, while not a huge step up graphically, sound absolutely terrific. The sound quality is so much better, especially on a good quality HDTV.  I think that's something that nearly everyone overlooks.
[/QUOTE]

Are you saying this out of personal experience or just what you have heard from other people or advertisers?  I promise you that if you have the same movie on two different systems, one is Blu-Ray, one is not, that they will sound the same.  There is absolutely zero evidence that the human ear can detect higher resolution audio than what a CD or DVD can provide, and I have done more double-blind tests than the average person will ever have time to do.  Anybody who thinks they hear a difference are only assuming they do.  And even if there WAS a difference, it would certainly not be discernible through the built-in speakers of a flat panel television.  One reason for this misconception is that so often people see Blu-Ray for the first time through a decent quality surround system (or at least a step up from what they are used to).This is like a modern-day version of The Emperor's New Clothes.   I am now demo-ing my Home Theater installs using Blu-Ray versions of the same movies I used on DVD.  I am VERY familiar with these scenes and what they sound like.  Trust me.  They sound the same.
[/QUOTE]

Even "No Country for Old Men"?  I am no audiophile, but that sounds better than any movie I've watched on blu-ray.  It seems like the difference between the high volume noise and low volume is greater than I ever noticed on DVD.  Dialogue is normal volume, gunshots and car engines are terrifying (and crystal clear).  I don't have the DVD to compare with though.

I also believe that SACDs can sound better than normal CDs.  The 5.1 mix of Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust", with the center channel reserved entirely for Bowie's vocals, really makes you believe that Bowie is in the room with you![/QUOTE]

"I don't have the DVD to compare with though."

Exactly.  And if you did, and compared them on the same system at the same volume level, and were not told ahead of time which was which, you would not be able to tell the difference.  Perceived difference has a huge part in the audio industry.  Actual discernible difference is usually ignored because it makes people realize they just wasted a bunch of money.  Perfect example: "High End" audio/video cables.  Try to get a rep from a company that makes high end cables do an A/B comparison or a double-blind A/B/X comparison.  They won't do it. Please take my word for it.  Even audio magazines follow the crowd because there is so much money in it from advertisers.

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VideoGameCritic
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PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby VideoGameCritic » January 8th, 2009, 10:54 pm

Paul,
I'd like to get your take on the health of Blu Ray.  Recently I read it wasn't catching on as fast as the industry was hoping.  I find that hard to believe considering it's the only high def DVD format.
Dave


funky_muzic1
Posts: 203
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS3 is a sinking ship: Sales plummet

Postby funky_muzic1 » January 9th, 2009, 3:11 pm

While Blu-Ray may "catch on", I don't foresee it having the same lifetime as "old-school" DVDs.  The main issue is that you need an HDTV to get something out of Blu-Ray.  HDTVs are still "catching on". 
I think that by the time HDTVs outnumber square TVs, there will be another storage format on the horizon.  Also many people will be downloading HD movies to store on there multi-TB DVRs. 


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