My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Talk about music, movies, television, books, and other media. No religious or political discussion allowed.
Tron
Posts: 474
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 8:02 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby Tron » May 25th, 2015, 10:36 am

Sut - I think I agree with 1 & 10, but not sure about the rest. Voyage Home was the one with the whale on earth right? I remember thinking that movie was awful & you have it ranked at 4. I think I would put that near the bottom.

Scotland - nice analogy of Kirk, Spock & McCoy. I think that trio is one of the best combinations in TV history. I love the Next Generation & the original series. I'm not sure which one I like more, but if I had to list my favorite characters from both series it would be:
1. McCoy
2. Spock
3. Kirk
4. Data
5. Troi

So even though I can't say which series I like the best my 3 favorite characters are all from the original series.

Sut
Posts: 595
Joined: April 8th, 2015, 4:23 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby Sut » May 25th, 2015, 11:22 am

Tron wrote:Voyage Home was the one with the whale on earth right? I remember thinking that movie was awful & you have it ranked at 4. I think I would put that near the bottom.


It truly is one of the entries that splits opinion. I find the overall premise a bit dull. But the whole crew from the future trying to mingle in the 1980's with it's fish out of water humour is, on the whole amusing. Kirk and Spocks chemistry in this film is superb it's just a shame McCoy isn't so much part of that dynamic in this film.
Perhaps it's a good film because of it's light hearted humour as opposed to being a good sci-fi film like the Wrath of Khan & Undiscovered Country.

User avatar
scotland
Posts: 1910
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 7:33 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby scotland » May 25th, 2015, 12:23 pm

The Original Series also had episodes like Voyage Home, and they too were divisive at the time. Many of the best ST:TOS were all action (balance of terror) or let the viewers know the heroes were people with hearts and souls (this side of paradise) but Trek had lots of writers and some enjoyed comedy. The most famous is The Trouble with Tribbles, which today is a fan favorite (on SyFy poll, it was the favorite), and got related stories in later Trek series was not liked by many of the execs of the series. The next seasons producer, when urged to do a followup, said, 'Star Trek is not a comedy'.

Voyage Home, like Tribbles, is a comedy. Its kinda Shakespearean even, like a much ado about nothing vibe. Its fine to not like it, and its totally different from Wrath of Khan or Undiscovered Country which are the action movies that still (paging mr jj abrams) are Trek movies, not something else with characters called Kirk and Spock.

Another divisive one is The Motion Picture, which our friend Sut has at the very bottom of his list. The movie has issues (look, its the port nacelle....still the port nacelle...still the...) but they are understandable. The movie still has a lot of the mind tripping of 2001 a space odyssey, and a script that was probably compiled from several going to be inexpensive tv episodes, then given a big budget and told to go to warp factor five. We got a slow moving film with a cosmic nigh omnipotent highly introspective antagonist on a quest for enlightenment (now thats Trek), and several important totally undeveloped co stars in Ilia and Decker (son of the great Commodore 'down the hatch' Decker), and a dead vulcan in a nightmarish freak transporter accident (McCoy was Right!) and horrible jumpsuits of tomorrow costumes. Despite all that, its a great movie. Its basically the story of the nomad probe from the tv series (The Changeling) given a 2001 makeover and a Star Wars budget. It actually fills a cinema screen with images that maybe just dont translate to televisions in daylight with distractions. Maybe it really needs to be seen in a theater or a home theater without distractions.

Tron
Posts: 474
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 8:02 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby Tron » May 25th, 2015, 6:59 pm

I actually liked the Tribbles episode & wouldn't compare it to voyage home. Tribbles were at least aliens and had a Sci-Fi element to them. It was funny, but it was still consistent with Sci-Fi. I would compare Voyage Home more to the Nazi and 1920's Chicago gangster episodes. I despise Sci-Fi shows that resort to using past earth plots or settings. Seeing Star Trek in the "80's" in Voyage Home was nauseating. I'd rather have cheesy looking aliens fighting each other then a great story about human-looking aliens mimicking earths past.

I also have to disagree With Scotty on his view of The Slow Motion Picture. I'm a big trek fan, but that movie was awful. I sat through it once & couldn't wait until it was over.

User avatar
scotland
Posts: 1910
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 7:33 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby scotland » May 25th, 2015, 8:21 pm

Tron wrote:I also have to disagree With Scotty on his view of The Slow Motion Picture. I'm a big trek fan, but that movie was awful. I sat through it once & couldn't wait until it was over.


I think my opinion is a minority one, and no doubt its pacing is akin to paint drying. It was trying to awe us, to go cosmic, but maybe lacked Kubricks confidence to go all mind bending, or it was just taking our very familiar tv pop heroes into the theater for a cosmic adventure. Thats hard to do, and why movie actors dont like to do tv and why tv actors rarely do well in movies.

I went and checked out Roger Ebert's review from 1979. He gave it 3 stars out of 4, and generally liked it.
"Star Trek: The Motion Picture" is probably about as good as we could have expected. It lacks the dazzling brilliance and originality of 2001 (which was an extraordinary one-of-a-kind film). But on its own terms it's a very well-made piece of work, with an interesting premise... Some of the early reviews seemed pretty blase, as if the critics didn't allow themselves to relish the film before racing out to pigeonhole it. My inclination, as I slid down in my seat and the stereo sound surrounded me, was to relax and let the movie give me a good time. I did and it did.


So Ebert too was in the minority, but I think I agree with his stand here. This puts ST:TMP parallel to the original Planet of the Apes, Logans Run and Flash Gordon all at 3 stars from Ebert.

Voor
Posts: 440
Joined: April 14th, 2015, 8:08 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby Voor » May 26th, 2015, 5:52 pm

Good timing. We finish III (return of Spock) and IV (voyage home) this weekend. I had a hard time getting into return of Spock, but I enjoyed voyage home quite a bit. That said, it's definitely the funny/goofy one of the series, and I wouldn't want another one like that.

The more I watch, the appreciate the Kirk/Spock/McCoy relationship and it makes you feel that no obstacle is too large when you have such a loyal team with you.

We are having a great time with these movies.

Tron
Posts: 474
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 8:02 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby Tron » May 26th, 2015, 9:33 pm

Being in the minority Scotty doesn't hold much merit for me. I tend to be in the minority on a lot of things & I still happen to be right almost all the time; arrogance at its best eh?

Anyways I can at least understand your view point up to the part until you bring Ebert into the discussion. Perhaps I don't understand his views, but it seems to me that they are extremely inconsistent. I don't get what that man likes & dislikes.

Regardless of my inability to recognize any methodology to Ebert's opinions I can't fathom how The Slow Motion Picture is parallel or even comparable to Planet of the Apes. Apes is an awesome movie & I'll go as far as to say it's even better than the best Star Trek movie, Wrath of Khan. I could accept a comparison of Apes to Khan as they are both great movies, but the Slow Motion Picture, hecks no.

User avatar
scotland
Posts: 1910
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 7:33 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby scotland » May 26th, 2015, 11:02 pm

Tron wrote:...even comparable to Planet of the Apes. Apes is an awesome movie & I'll go as far as to say it's even better than the best Star Trek movie, Wrath of Khan. I could accept a comparison of Apes to Khan as they are both great movies, but the Slow Motion Picture, hecks no.


I brought Ebert in as someone who rates movies on their own merits, much like Dave. I was not comparing the films, just saying Ebert rated them all as good but not great sci fi flicks. When Dave gives a B to two games, he is not directly comparing them, just equating the fun each game provided...Ebert does the same. You may not have the same amount of fun as someone else, but within reason, its all subjective.

All four of those films I have watched and rewatched many times; I really enjoy all of them and happy to talk about them. I think all four are indeed good movies. The most rewatchable to me is Flash Gordon, but the most intriguing is Planet of the Apes. I would rate them higher than the other two (subjective again). Logans Run and Trek the Movie each had more promise than achieved sadly.

For the original Planet of the Apes, I am of an age that was encouraged to 'go ape' in the 70s. I adore the original Heston movie, and it plays well to kids as an action movie and adults as more than that. Its another film that surpasses the source material, and it is the Khan of its franchise. I would certainly watch it again over Trek the movie, but I would watch ST:TMP over most of the rest of the franchise films.

User avatar
scotland
Posts: 1910
Joined: April 7th, 2015, 7:33 pm

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby scotland » July 11th, 2015, 8:35 am

New Star Trek movie (#3 in reboot/alternate continuity) coming. The co-writer, Simon Pegg (Shaun from Shaun of the Dead) said that science fiction is contributing to the dumbing down of our culture. That he and Paramount in general want Star Trek to be more bright Saturday afternoon entertainment like the Avengers...and wants the next Trek film (Star Trek Beyond) to be 'less star trekky' - that to do this you could make a heist movie or a western or thriller and populate it with the Trek characters.

Oh dear...you can pull of the kilt pretty good, but have you ever even *watched* the original Star Trek from the 1960s! That is exactly what the show was - a gangster movie, a nazi germany final solution movie, a paradise gone horribly wrong movie, a fantastic destroyer vs submarine story, and so on. Different writers did exactly that, then those scripts were massaged to fit Roddenberry's universe.

Sci Fi helps boost imagination and thinking about risks and unintended consequences and how society adapts to changes in technology or encountering other cultures. The original Star Trek was awesome because it was using sci fi as a veneer to tell whatever stories it wanted, but slipping past filters and censors. Then, a guy who is best known as Shaun of the Dead needs to be careful about what dumbs down culture. Finally...I wish the new Star Trek were more Star Trek. Now they are just generic action films, filled with characters who are Trek in Name Only.

Vexer6
Posts: 295
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 12:14 am

Re: My daughter and I have gotten into Star Trek

Postby Vexer6 » July 11th, 2015, 12:04 pm

I disagree, I think the new Trek films are pretty damn good, my mom grew up watching watching the original series and she loves the new Trek films as much as I do.


Return to “Other Media”