Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

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bluemonkey1
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Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby bluemonkey1 » August 13th, 2006, 5:51 am

That's not niave and that might explain why you gave such a low score to Perfect Dark Zero and actually praised the World Xplorer mode in RR6 which if you had completed you would realise has a number of flaws.

 

Games like Donkey Konga, Soul Calibur, Zero Gunner 2, whatever, those kind of games you don't need to try everything because they are arcade style and the feel and gameplay is the same and can be judged early on.  A certain degree of judgement needs to be used.

 

Of course a player doesn't have to experience everything in a game like an RPG because the same principle holds.  However in a game where each single player level offers something different then yes it is important.  Otherwise you end up with the kind of uninformed statements that don't hold up which can be seen in the Critic's PDZ review:

 

"but I managed to do fine despite blowing my cover again and again."

"Unfortunately, the missions themselves are a mess, and if not for white arrows directing me every which way, I'd never know where the heck I was supposed to go"

"These can also be played cooperatively with a friend, but that's even more confusing"

 

These statements clearly show very little playtime.  I always play with the arrows switched off and the levels have lots of details and areas but don't take more than a couple of tries to memorise all the important routes.  And you can only get away with breaking the stealth rule on the easiest settings.

 

Frankly I think it is ridiculous a person can review the single player portion of a game without actually playing it all the way through.  I think I will have to take the future reviews on this site with a grain of salt.  You would never find a magazine or a website like Gamespot review an FPS game without playing it all the way through.  And that is because they think it is important  in order to take their opinions seriously.  I just think it is a joke not too.  How can a full and proper critique be made when someone has only seen a portion of what the game has to offer.  It is no different to watching half the movie and then leaving and writing a review of it.

 

Oh and SSX if you are talking about PDZ try saying Perfect Dark Zero rather than Perfect Dark, that might avoid the confusion in future.


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VideoGameCritic
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Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby VideoGameCritic » August 13th, 2006, 10:27 am

Well, you see, the difference between the VGC and Gamespot is that I'm NOT a professional reviewer.  I'm a normal guy with a 40 hour work week and family to support. 

And that's the angle I take when reviewing games.  When you come to the VGC you're going to get a quick, down-and-dirty review of a game in a single paragraph.  If you want to read a seven-page diatribe ending with an inflated grade there are plenty of other sites you can visit.

I play a game until I don't feel like playing it anymore.  As it turns out however, most of the feedback I get indicates my reviews tend to be spot-on, so I guess I must be doing something right.


Atarifever1
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Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby Atarifever1 » August 13th, 2006, 10:38 am

[QUOTE=bluemonkey]

That's not niave and that might explain why you gave such a low score to Perfect Dark Zero and actually praised the World Xplorer mode in RR6 which if you had completed you would realise has a number of flaws.

 

Games like Donkey Konga, Soul Calibur, Zero Gunner 2, whatever, those kind of games you don't need to try everything because they are arcade style and the feel and gameplay is the same and can be judged early on.  A certain degree of judgement needs to be used.

 

Of course a player doesn't have to experience everything in a game like an RPG because the same principle holds.  However in a game where each single player level offers something different then yes it is important.  Otherwise you end up with the kind of uninformed statements that don't hold up which can be seen in the Critic's PDZ review:

 

"but I managed to do fine despite blowing my cover again and again."

"Unfortunately, the missions themselves are a mess, and if not for white arrows directing me every which way, I'd never know where the heck I was supposed to go"

"These can also be played cooperatively with a friend, but that's even more confusing"

 

These statements clearly show very little playtime.  I always play with the arrows switched off and the levels have lots of details and areas but don't take more than a couple of tries to memorise all the important routes.  And you can only get away with breaking the stealth rule on the easiest settings.

 

Frankly I think it is ridiculous a person can review the single player portion of a game without actually playing it all the way through.  I think I will have to take the future reviews on this site with a grain of salt.  You would never find a magazine or a website like Gamespot review an FPS game without playing it all the way through.  And that is because they think it is important  in order to take their opinions seriously.  I just think it is a joke not too.  How can a full and proper critique be made when someone has only seen a portion of what the game has to offer.  It is no different to watching half the movie and then leaving and writing a review of it.

 

Oh and SSX if you are talking about PDZ try saying Perfect Dark Zero rather than Perfect Dark, that might avoid the confusion in future.

[/QUOTE]
Absolutely nothing you just said makes any kind of logical sense.  There is nothing special about  FPSers that requires it be completed while "arcade" games don't need to be.  you love FPS games and so you happen to think they somehow deserve special treatment; they don't.  Your whole line of reasoning on this one is silly in the extreme.

bluemonkey1
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Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby bluemonkey1 » August 13th, 2006, 12:36 pm

That still doesn't make my point niave. 


a1
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Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby a1 » August 13th, 2006, 3:49 pm

[QUOTE=bluemonkey]

That still doesn't make my point niave. 

[/QUOTE]

Your point is naive because you are not a game reviewer (not to my knowledge at least), so you can't judge the way other reviewers work. The Critic would not have time to review all of the games he does if he played them all the way through. Would you rather this site have 1/4 the amount of reviews it has now?


sega saturn x

Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby sega saturn x » August 13th, 2006, 8:55 pm

[QUOTE]

Games like Donkey Konga, Soul Calibur, Zero Gunner 2, whatever, those kind of games you don't need to try everything because they are arcade style and the feel and gameplay is the same and can be judged early on.  A certain degree of judgement needs to be used.

[/QUOTE]

But soul calibur is a such a deep and technical game you can' judge it until you've played with every character and mastered every combo.  How could you possibly know if you liked it unless you have completed it 100%?  Oh that's right because you could figure out you didn't like it within 20 minutes.  The only reason you're saying this insane drivel is because you like PDZ.  And you never gave a reason that made an ounce of sense why this rule can only be applied to FPS aka games YOU like. 


Atarifever1
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Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby Atarifever1 » August 13th, 2006, 9:26 pm

[QUOTE=sega saturn x]

[QUOTE]

Games like Donkey Konga, Soul Calibur, Zero Gunner 2, whatever, those kind of games you don't need to try everything because they are arcade style and the feel and gameplay is the same and can be judged early on.  A certain degree of judgement needs to be used.

[/QUOTE]

But soul calibur is a such a deep and technical game you can' judge it until you've played with every character and mastered every combo.  How could you possibly know if you liked it unless you have completed it 100%?  Oh that's right because you could figure out you didn't like it within 20 minutes.  The only reason you're saying this insane drivel is because you like PDZ.  And you never gave a reason that made an ounce of sense why this rule can only be applied to FPS aka games YOU like. 

[/QUOTE]
An arcade game often has its best stuff happen late.  Some shooters, for example, start out very generic and then lead to crazy weapons upgrades, huge late level bosses, and other kinds of surprises later on.  Also, some of the "arcade" type games I've played have fluctuated wildly throughout the levels.  I'm playing Super Monkey ball 2 right now, and some of the first levels were waaaaayyyyyyy too easy, yet finally, in world 4, I've hit some levels that aren't a cake walk (until you figure out the secret of course, then they're a cakewalk).  As the game advances the difficulty ramps, the backgrounds have become nicer, and the types of tricks the levels use are more fun.   However, if someone hated the game in World 2 (i.e. they didn't like the controls, the graphics, the point, etc) I could see them giving the game a poor review.  That's how you judge a game, on your take on it.  If your take is that it's a boring, uninsired game, why should you have to put up with that boredom just because at some point in the future you might finally find something redeeming in it. Who has that kind of time on their hands?  No one I know.  Then, everyone I know either has a job/family or is finishing a degree and doesn't have hours to sink into things that bore them.  I'm glad the critic often says what he thinks early in a game, as I'm not planning on wasting nights between work and study spending tedious hours at something that should be fun.  No thanks there are games that are good to begin with, so I'd rather play one of those.  If I want to bore myself in those hours, I'd at least spend it doing something worthwhile.  I mean, the gym's pretty boring too, but at least that's good for me.

sega saturn x

Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby sega saturn x » August 13th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Some RPG reviews just crack me up.  "I really didn't care for the game at first but after the first 20 hours or so the game really grows on you."  Or  "I had to play through it three times to really get hooked".  Screw that noise, after I hear "round one fight!" the mechanics are good or they are guilty gear, end of story.  I might give a game a few rounds more but if it fails to impress from the get go, into the pile you go. 


JustLikeHeaven1
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Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby JustLikeHeaven1 » August 13th, 2006, 11:13 pm

I'm not gonna lie, the comment about having to play games through to completion before reviewing is absolutely ludicrous!  If you want to go by the bloated crappy scores that places like gamespot and ign give then by all means do so.  If you want real reviews check out places like gamerankings that tabulate scores for games across several different mediums. 

Gamerankings has PDZ at a score of 80%.  Thats not too far off from what The Critic said.  I hardly think the game is worthy of the 9.0 that Gamespot gave it and I think FPS really have to offer something incredible to garner such a high score.  The FPS happens to be the most overcrowded, generic genre in recent history.

Also I think its pretty disrespectful to basically call out the person that owns and operates his own site on his message board.  Unlike snobs from other places, The Critic will openly listen to criticism, re-review games and admit when he is wrong.  I can't think of a single site or magazine that does any of those things. 

To blatantly say that he is wrong in the way that he reviews games just doesn't make any sense.  Did you honestly think he finished every game before he wrote a review?   Did you think he was some kind of gaming savant?  Do you think he is paying the milkman some extra cash to keep his wife happy while he is playing every game he owns to completion?  No normal man (or woman) that collects videogames has that kind of time to invest in the hobby.  Maybe if he bought a game once every three months, but I hardly think thats the case.

The Critic's reviews are some of the most honest you will find anywhere.  Do I agree with everyone of them?  No, I certainly don't, but the man has pointed in me in the right direction more often than not.  You should be pretty thankful that he has such a dedication to his hobby to even create and maintain this site, because regardless of what you think its one of the best gaming sites on the net. 

bluemonkey1
Posts: 2444
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Perfect Dark Zero (Xbox 360)

Postby bluemonkey1 » August 14th, 2006, 5:51 am

a I do have my own review site that currently has 20 game reviews on it, 1 book review, 3 movie reviews and 2 user made level reviews.  I have actually been reviewing games for the past five years but have twice scrapped everything I had written as I felt the format was incorrect (those reviews have been written over the last 9 months hence the small number).

 

Atari and SSX my point about arcade games is still valid and has nothing to do with me liking FPS games (they aren't even my favourite genre).  I would feel the same if someone reviewed Resident Evil, God Of War or any game where the experience is based on the game content created.  Take Pac Man, you see all the content the game has to offer within an hour.  With Soul Calibur it is also the point that you also see all the content very early on.  It is not necessary to master all the characters to understand how the fights play (that is just a ludicrous statement) or what the gaem offers because you can see it.  Same with Crazy Taxi.  All these types of games you experience everything they have to offer early on and the rest of the time is spent getting better.

 

The same goes for most shooters.  It is easy to complete a shooter within a few hours and see everything.  The rest of the time is just spent trying to one credit the thing.  Also Super Monkey Ball is not really an arcade game.  My point is that certain types of games should be played to completion if the enjoyment is based on the game content rather than the game mechanics.

 

JustLikeHeaven if you look at my post I didn't exactly call him out.  I said his review of PDZ showed a lack of playtime, which it did.  The "ridiculous" comment was aimed more at the creator of this topic.  I said I would be taking the reviews with a grain of salt.  That means I PERSONALLY wouldn't be taking his reviews as definitive now.  Nowhere did I say you guys shouldn't.  It's a decent site and I didn't mean to condemn that fact and if the reviews are marketed at the more casual player that is fine.  And the majority of the Critic's reviews are of the older, simpler titles that like I said previously are based more on the game mechanics and so they would take no longer to review than they do now.

 

I am also not being disrespectful.  My comments weren't directed at him initially, they were directed at Linkdude.  The VGC then entered the debate and took Linkdude's perspective.  So I didn't start my views with the express purpose of slagging him off.  Given that fact I think I am perfectly entitled to continue to defend my viewpoint.  It was also the VGC who described my opinions as niave.  How is that any less disrespectful?  Since the VGC is so open to criticism as you say I can hardly see him minding me continuing to express a viewpoint I made before realising it criticised his review style. 

 

Take the week at the start of August, only Pirates of The Caribbean is a game based on level structure.  Blitz, Dragonball, NCAA Football and the three 2600 games are all of the arcadey variety where the full game can be seen very early on.  So it isn't exactly like it would take much more time anyway.



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