Afterburner Climax being delisted

General and high profile video game topics.
Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Oltobaz1 » December 17th, 2014, 4:32 pm

Yes, it is definitely a dogmatic way to look at things. Hope you're not at odds with this rigid view of yours, it's your opinion after all.



Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Segatarious1 » December 17th, 2014, 4:50 pm

[QUOTE=ptdebate]A sound argument, but only if you ignore the fact that I was talking about pre-owned sales, not new sales.[/QUOTE]

I am not ignoring that fact.

Nintendo had the first sale.
First buyer then has potential second sale income
And so on.

Pirate downloads game, no sale.
Pirate downloads game, no sale.
Pirate downloads game, no sale.
Pirate downloads game, no sale.
and so on.

Nothing is being ignored, that is a true and full representation of either scenario.


Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Oltobaz1 » December 17th, 2014, 4:56 pm

Except in AfterBurner Climaxs case there's no sales to be had anyway...

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Segatarious1 » December 17th, 2014, 9:05 pm

[QUOTE=Oltobaz]Except in AfterBurner Climaxs case there's no sales to be had anyway...[/QUOTE]

Yes there is.

Leo gave you good notice.

scotland171
Posts: 816
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby scotland171 » December 17th, 2014, 10:05 pm

[QUOTE=Segatarious] And there is never a time to root for piracy.[/QUOTE]

Heres one. What if a game deserves preservation?

Afterburner may be fun, but its pedestrian. However, other games may not be. Sony is pulling release of a controversial Seth Rogen movie, but that movie could be appearing in torrent sites soon anyway. Here would be a movie with no legal way to view it, yet disseminated and preserved. What if this movie had a digital tie in video game that Sony delisted? Would it ethical to download the delisted video game anyway?

Or imagine if Doom had been a digital download game, but after Columbine it was delisted from its association. Given its importance to video gaming history, would it be ethical to preserve it?

I understand you are are in the camp that believes a peer to peer download equates to a lost sale, but is there not any situation where unorthodox preservation is the ethical, if not legal, high ground?

BanjoPickles1
Posts: 1321
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby BanjoPickles1 » December 17th, 2014, 10:48 pm

[QUOTE=Oltobaz]Except in AfterBurner Climaxs case there's no sales to be had anyway...[/QUOTE]

Don't forget, though, that this is the same guy who had a problem with people tampering with their Wii's so they could import a PURCHASED copy of Xenoblade because, at the time, localization seemed unlikely. I never understood that.

I'm against emulation in any situation where the game is readily available, and there's money to be earned. For instance, I won't download an Atari emulator simply because there's a mom and pop game store that sells Ataris down the road and they rely on my $30+; I'll never download an emulated Nintendo game because I know that, for the most part, Nintendo will preserve that game's legacy down the road.

However, the digital space adds a bit of a gray area. What happens when a game is pulled from the market place, and you can't walk into a pawn shop, or game store, to buy it? I can buy a copy of Hyrule Warriors and, if I decide to, I can sell it so somebody else can enjoy it down the road. In cases like Afterburner, that isn't an option.....and, in most cases, the men and women who put the hard work into the game were NOT the ones who made that decision! How fair is it that somebody's vision is forced to wither and die, never to be heard of again? Just as some indie artists, who are trying to get their music heard so they encourage the free downloading of their music, there has to be an outlet so these games can build some sort of legacy, post mortem. Steer, I know that you've said that you're basically a one and done sort of gamer, and games may be as important to you as cotton candy in that they're both nothing more than product. That's all well and good, but some people, especially those who miss the boat in the digital age, may not want these experiences to fade completely away.

One more thing, I seriously don't think that people who opt to download the game for free are hurting the company who makes the aircrafts that were licensed. That's just silly!

HardcoreSadism1
Posts: 526
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby HardcoreSadism1 » December 18th, 2014, 12:26 am

Usually there are technical drawbacks that make the emulator ROM's less reflective of their initial product (which is no longer circulated), thus void of (substantial) legal potholes.

It's actually deeper than that, just a TL;DR.

Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Oltobaz1 » December 18th, 2014, 2:18 am

[QUOTE=Segatarious][QUOTE=Oltobaz]Except in AfterBurner Climaxs case there's no sales to be had anyway...[/QUOTE]

Yes there is.

Leo gave you good notice.[/QUOTE]

LOL. It's a matter of days. Come on, you're better than this . Me, I own the game anyways..

Leo1
Posts: 2325
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Leo1 » December 18th, 2014, 2:34 am

[QUOTE=Oltobaz]It's a matter of days. Come on, you're better than this . Me, I own the game anyways..[/QUOTE]

Sadly, I believe that it disappeared sometime the day after I posted this topic. Haven't personally went looking, but have now seen reports of its absence on both XBLA and PSN.

I wonder if it got delisted early rather than when the contracts presumably expired due to Christmas being next week. Do they usually do any marketplace updates the week of Christmas?

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Segatarious1 » December 18th, 2014, 3:20 am

There are really no 'gray areas' here though.

Games are a commercial product that have a shelf life. If game makers are truly so interested and supportive of freeware, could they not easily make their own game available to be stolen? Why do you have to do that for them, and then claim they support your efforts? Could they not remove the licensed aircraft, and replace them with generic models, and continue selling the game, if it was worth the time and effort to them?

This game had a shelf life. If you buy the game before the deadline, you are still able to redownload it past the de-listed period. How far past the de-listed period will remain to be seen. But, when you buy this game, on that service, you are agreeing to all of these principals in advance. There is no bait and switch here, it is a simple matter of licensing.

My point stands, the fact is that piracy is  principally used to steal new games, as they release, or soon after they release. You can walk around the edges of piracy and try to find niche reasons or scenarios to justify it, but they are not morally sound reasons, and do not hold up to scrutiny. This game is the prefect example, even before it is 'dead', people are trying to find excuses and justifications where in they can steal the game, instead of buying it legally, while they still can. They are committing a crime, but try to paint themselves as a victim, or even a crusader, as they change the rules of purchasing after the fact, with no notice or regard for the other side of the deal.

So lets say you steal this game 3 years from now. Are you going to look up the license holder, and send them a check in the mail, for your download? Will you consider them then? What will stop you?

I know what will stop you, from even thinking of doing that, - it is the fact that you are getting high quality software for nothing, and justifying your theft with a victim mentality. It is a one sided moral situation - you consider your own wants, but have no regard for needs on the other side of the equation. If no one is there to guard the fence, you hop over and steal what you like. Where is your self discipline and sense of justice now?


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