Afterburner Climax being delisted

[Oltobaz1]

Ever the truther, eh? Yet, we're not discussing piracy in general and the legal and moral aspects.
We're talking about a game no longer available for purchase, pretty much an abandonware.
No one care what people will do from there, not even the creators. Why should they? The product doesn't technically
belong to anyone anymore, so you're not taking money from anyone. Still, let's address your far fetched assertion,
sending them money over? They would be bound to refuse, actually: they lost the license.. .

[Segatarious1]

[QUOTE=Oltobaz]Ever the truther, eh? Yet, we're not discussing piracy in general and the legal and moral aspects. We're talking about a game no longer available for purchase, pretty much an abandonware. No one care what people will do from there, not even the creators. Why should they? The product doesn't technically belong to anyone anymore, so you're not taking money from anyone. Still, let's address your far fetched assertion, sending them money over? They would be bound to refuse, actually: they lost the license.. .[/QUOTE]

Here we go again though : 'pretty much' abandonware. These are all assumptions on your part. You do not know if there are plans to re release this game. It COULD be rereleased, it COULD be modified to be the same game without official aircraft, it COULD be released in a compilation down the road.

Banjo, was Xenoblade ever released in the West? And, it will be released again, on the *new* 3DS. How many lost sales of that game due to piracy? Piracy undermines localization efforts and game releases, which undermines sales, which in turn undermines game production. If someone can easily pirate, they lose interest in buying games legally. They have a glut of games available for nothing, at their disposal, they have no need to buy into the game economy.

So - if someone should pirate the game between de-listing and reproduction, or, most likely, have already pirated it before it was ever de-listed, those are all lost sales.

Because the pirates have already made themselves a victim, hopped over the fence, and took it for nothing.

What fetched assertion? Track down the license holders, track down the names in the credits, send them money, and see if they send it back. Put that 'fetched assertion' to the test.

[Leo1]

[QUOTE=BanjoPickles][QUOTE=Oltobaz]Except in AfterBurner Climaxs case there's no sales to be had anyway...[/QUOTE] Don't forget, though, that this is the same guy who had a problem with people tampering with their Wii's so they could import a PURCHASED copy of Xenoblade because, at the time, localization seemed unlikely. I never understood that. [/QUOTE]

Apparently, importing is now "piracy".

lol

[Oltobaz1]

Nope. Even if they released the game again, it would be without the aircraft licenses, it wouldn't be the same game. It would be even less desirable than Punch Out!! compared to Mike Tyson's Punch Out!! They would call it different, the game would look different, while the true, underground version would be left to the Happy Few. It wouldn't be the same game. Far fetched assertion, indeed. Sending money they didn't earn to companies -from a legal point of view- they are bound to refuse. You understand we're talking about a game they're no longer selling. It's out there, yet they're not maintaining marketing and ressources towards the product. It's gone, yet you can still pick it up, as the only way to enjoy it, save from getting an used PS3 with the game still attached. Besides, how much would you send them? How would you quantify the amount? A silly, if amusing, proposition.

[Oltobaz1]

[QUOTE=Leo][QUOTE=BanjoPickles][QUOTE=Oltobaz]Except in AfterBurner Climaxs case there's no sales to be had anyway...[/QUOTE] Don't forget, though, that this is the same guy who had a problem with people tampering with their Wii's so they could import a PURCHASED copy of Xenoblade because, at the time, localization seemed unlikely. I never understood that. [/QUOTE]

Apparently, importing is now "piracy".

lol[/QUOTE]

Indeed. I was playing Ketsui on my PS3 just now. Don't tell anyone

[BanjoPickles1]

[QUOTE=Leo][QUOTE=BanjoPickles][QUOTE=Oltobaz]Except in AfterBurner Climaxs case there's no sales to be had anyway...[/QUOTE] Don't forget, though, that this is the same guy who had a problem with people tampering with their Wii's so they could import a PURCHASED copy of Xenoblade because, at the time, localization seemed unlikely. I never understood that. [/QUOTE]

Apparently, importing is now "piracy".

lol[/QUOTE]

I was just thinking that. Lol!

The problem I have with his overall philosophy is that the consumer should fill the role of the submissive yes man. If Nintendo tells me that I can't play Fatal Frame 4, Captain Rainbow, or Xenoblade (thankfully, this saw localization), I should just gleefully nod my head and support them by buying the latest Mario game. I DID vote with my wallet, as many did, when Xenoblade saw release.....but I, personally, see nothing wrong with importing when it comes to a company trying to tell me what I can, or cannot, play. Your stance is supposedly anti-theft, but I really do believe that you adopt the mentality that consumers should accept what is and move on. I always vote with my wallet. If you make what I consider to be a piece of crap, I'll probably never play it. If the game is worth my time, I'll rent it, or buy it outright. If the game interests me, but the powers that be try telling me that it's too expensive to localize, or not per my American tastes, then I'll pay the inflated price to import the sucker. I'm a consumer, not a thief.

[Segatarious1]

Woah, wait a minute.

I am not talking about imports here. I am talking about illegally downloading a rom of the game and playing it that way. I was very clear on that and OBVIOUSLY that was and is lost sales. Many did not 'wait' for localization, because they made themselves a victim, in order to justify pirating, and acquired Xenoblade in that way. How many lost sales? How much of the delcine of past gen and current gen consoles can we attribute to piracy? How many studios have been shuutered or left the console game industry in the past 10 years due in part to piracy? Turn your head, pretend you do not see??? YOu think more people imnported Xenoblade then pirated it in the USA? TO that, I say - 'lol'.....

And not just of the game in question, but of other games as well. If your time is occupied playing a game you stole, you have less incentive to buy ANY game, because your itch is being scratched for nothing.

Oltobaz is suddenly concerned with how he would decide what amount to doante to the license holders and IP owners of a game he could steal? Amazing. Should the number be less than zero? Is that a starting point? They would not be legally obligated to not accept your money. You can gift anyone or anything you choose. Send a gift to every license holder you have bilked through piracy.

[Oltobaz1]

Exactly. A gift. Something you're never under any obligation at any given time, as far as the law is concerned.

A game I "could steal". LOL. I bought the game when it came out, about. Still, I suppose anybody could pick it up with the proper
know how. You could. I encourage you pick it up any way you see fit. It's a very good game.

[Segatarious1]

[QUOTE=Oltobaz]Exactly. A gift. Something you're never under any obligation at any given time, as far as the law is concerned. A game I "could steal". LOL. I bought the game when it came out, about. Still, I suppose anybody could pick it up with the proper know how. You could. I encourage you pick it up any way you see fit. It's a very good game.[/QUOTE]

Have you pirated any games?

I know Leo has pirated,  he has admitted it to the board.

You are simply exposing your own false motives here. If the 'real' issue was indeed creating access to the game, and not playing it for nothing, then the pirates would have already have acted upon their moral obligation to pay someone for their work. By either purchasing the game through legal channels, or doanating money to the license holders directly to 'cover' the cost of your theft, in your own arbitrary way.

I will not hold my breath.

I know there are plenty of people who have pirated and continue to pirate games that are reading this, I wonder how many have made ANY effort of all to pay for their crime. Most likely, none.

[Oltobaz1]

Robocop,

You haven't read my rights, surely an issue with your program: you're confused, why
would you lump AfterBurner Climax with piracy as a whole otherwise, especially after
being presented with arguments you cannot refute?

While I do have the right to remain silent, I'll bite, I haven't pirated anything current gen at
any given time. For two reasons, I'm a huge collector, and am not too fond of emulating old systems
which I did try my hand at in the past. Be they on the Virtual Console or a PC, it lacks too much in the
way of authencity to make it interesting for me, legal issues aside. And that's pretty much it. "Their crime"
You're something else.

I'm not trying to justify or excuse piracy while sharing with you and the board my belief this game now falls
into that gray area you were the first to mention in this thread, while saying it didn't. Means you realize there's
at least a case to be made. You failed at backing up your own stance and rely now on false accusations and
petty assumptions not only towards yours truly, but the whole board. It's a new low. Green Goblin low (fun to watch throwing pumpkins around, but not an heavyweight).