Afterburner Climax being delisted

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Astrosmasher1
Posts: 1107
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Astrosmasher1 » December 17th, 2014, 3:29 am

I recently deleted this from my hard drive.  Thanks to this thread I have put it back on.  Thanks..

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Segatarious1 » December 17th, 2014, 6:49 am

[QUOTE=ptdebate]Sega,

I don't understand what would be wrong with piracy in this circumstance. Once the game is delisted, there's no longer a way to pay for it. Could you please elaborate?[/QUOTE]

It is very simple. You are stealing.

You are not paying the entity who owns the rights to the games, you are not paying the entities who own the rights to the planes, and you are not paying the console maker who provided the platform for which you are stealing the game from.

Stealing is stealing. If the game is still protected intelectual property, which it is, then you can not lawfully 'produce' your copy by stealing the code from a source on the internet who is illegally distributing it, and not compensating those who own the rights to the IP.

Edward1
Posts: 297
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Edward1 » December 17th, 2014, 7:50 am

[QUOTE=Segatarious][QUOTE=ptdebate]Sega,

I don't understand what would be wrong with piracy in this circumstance. Once the game is delisted, there's no longer a way to pay for it. Could you please elaborate?[/QUOTE]

It is very simple. You are stealing.

You are not paying the entity who owns the rights to the games, you are not paying the entities who own the rights to the planes, and you are not paying the console maker who provided the platform for which you are stealing the game from.

Stealing is stealing. If the game is still protected intelectual property, which it is, then you can not lawfully 'produce' your copy by stealing the code from a source on the internet who is illegally distributing it, and not compensating those who own the rights to the IP.[/QUOTE]

This argument might mean something if after next week you even had the ability to "pay the entity who owns the rights to the games."  There are much more important moral crusades to get involved with then stopping people from downloading abandoned games that cannot be for sale any longer (genocide, child starvation, global warming, etc).  I'm guessing even the people who made the game (the programmers, not the business executives) don't mind if people download it "illegally" after next week.  Its the only way people can play the game they worked hard on after next week. I'm guessing they'd rather people play the game they worked so hard on, then it just disappearing into a black hole. 

I dont have a modded Xbox 360, so I wouldnt even have the ability to pirate this game.  I also already bought it.  However, if I had a modded Xbox, and didnt have it downloaded already, after next week I wouldnt feel 1 percent guilt if I "pirated" this game, and neither would any rational thinking person.

Also, for the record correct, stealing is stealing.  But copyright infringement is not stealing.  They are separate items under the law.  Also the law isn't perfect. Its as fallible as the men and women who create it.  That's why the copyright code is so terrible, and we have items that are 100+ years old still in copyright, and you are threatened with 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for merely pirating one item (which is actually significantly worse than merely stealing something from the store).  Why?  Because the congressmen were bought off by the entertainment lobby.


ptdebate1
Posts: 909
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby ptdebate1 » December 17th, 2014, 9:24 am

[QUOTE=Segatarious][QUOTE=ptdebate]Sega,

I don't understand what would be wrong with piracy in this circumstance. Once the game is delisted, there's no longer a way to pay for it. Could you please elaborate?[/QUOTE]

It is very simple. You are stealing.

You are not paying the entity who owns the rights to the games, you are not paying the entities who own the rights to the planes, and you are not paying the console maker who provided the platform for which you are stealing the game from.

Stealing is stealing. If the game is still protected intelectual property, which it is, then you can not lawfully 'produce' your copy by stealing the code from a source on the internet who is illegally distributing it, and not compensating those who own the rights to the IP.[/QUOTE]

In that case, I fully advocate stealing.

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Segatarious1 » December 17th, 2014, 9:29 am

[QUOTE=Edward][QUOTE=Segatarious][QUOTE=ptdebate]Sega,

I don't understand what would be wrong with piracy in this circumstance. Once the game is delisted, there's no longer a way to pay for it. Could you please elaborate?[/QUOTE]

It is very simple. You are stealing.

You are not paying the entity who owns the rights to the games, you are not paying the entities who own the rights to the planes, and you are not paying the console maker who provided the platform for which you are stealing the game from.

Stealing is stealing. If the game is still protected intelectual property, which it is, then you can not lawfully 'produce' your copy by stealing the code from a source on the internet who is illegally distributing it, and not compensating those who own the rights to the IP.[/QUOTE]

This argument might mean something if after next week you even had the ability to "pay the entity who owns the rights to the games."  There are much more important moral crusades to get involved with then stopping people from downloading abandoned games that cannot be for sale any longer (genocide, child starvation, global warming, etc).  I'm guessing even the people who made the game (the programmers, not the business executives) don't mind if people download it "illegally" after next week.  Its the only way people can play the game they worked hard on after next week. I'm guessing they'd rather people play the game they worked so hard on, then it just disappearing into a black hole. 

I dont have a modded Xbox 360, so I wouldnt even have the ability to pirate this game.  I also already bought it.  However, if I had a modded Xbox, and didnt have it downloaded already, after next week I wouldnt feel 1 percent guilt if I "pirated" this game, and neither would any rational thinking person.

Also, for the record correct, stealing is stealing.  But copyright infringement is not stealing.  They are separate items under the law.  Also the law isn't perfect. Its as fallible as the men and women who create it.  That's why the copyright code is so terrible, and we have items that are 100+ years old still in copyright, and you are threatened with 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for merely pirating one item (which is actually significantly worse than merely stealing something from the store).  Why?  Because the congressmen were bought off by the entertainment lobby.

[/QUOTE]

Moral Crusade? More like an Immoral Crusade.

These 'homebrew' channels are created 99% for the reason of pirating. Most people who download 'homebrew' channels or mod their consoles have no homebrew games or software on them at all. Most of the games pirated are not out of print, and were not out of print or unavailable when they were pirated. New Super Mario for Wii was pirated and released to the internet before the game was even released. Recently Sony was hacked (again) and many of their movies and other products were made available by pirating before release.

How can you speak for the game makers? They support piracy because it allows more people to play their games without paying for them, often at launch or even prelaunch? Utterly laughable argument.  Piracy is obviously very weakly enforced, otherwise why would it be so very common and so very prevalent?

Your examples are very weak moral justifications to support the practive of stealing as much as one wants, whenever one wants.




Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Oltobaz1 » December 17th, 2014, 9:38 am

That's very dogmatic.

ptdebate1
Posts: 909
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby ptdebate1 » December 17th, 2014, 11:13 am

Just a reminder, SegaT--

Buying the pre-owned copy of a game is no different than pirating it in the sense that the creator gets no money for it. Food for thought.

Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Oltobaz1 » December 17th, 2014, 12:17 pm

That's true.

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby Segatarious1 » December 17th, 2014, 3:32 pm

[QUOTE=ptdebate]Just a reminder, SegaT-- Buying the pre-owned copy of a game is no different than pirating it in the sense that the creator gets no money for it. Food for thought.[/QUOTE]

Well this is not a well thought out argument, because Nintendo had the first sale in your example:

exp - New Super Mario Wii - 28,000,000 sales x $50 = $1,400,000,000 in revenue gross between Nintendo and retail outlets.

New Super Mario Wii - 5,000,000? pirated copies ripped from internet x $0 a sale = $0 of revenue for Nintendo and retailers.

I know that might seem 'dogmatic', but on the other hand, it is the truth, so is that a problem?

ptdebate1
Posts: 909
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Afterburner Climax being delisted

Postby ptdebate1 » December 17th, 2014, 4:31 pm

A sound argument, but only if you ignore the fact that I was talking about pre-owned sales, not new sales.


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