Which system is the undisputed king of RPGs?

[JustLikeHeaven1]

The title says it all!  I'm curious what you guys n gals on the forums think is the one system that has the best lineup of Role Playing Games.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around an answer myself!  

[Bluenote1]

For portables, definately the DS. 

For console, I would say SNES

[ActRaiser1]

Interesting question

Per generation, here's how I would roll it up.

8-bit any thing PC, Commodore 64 etc - just not consoles
16-bit SNES
32-bit Playstation
6th gen - PS2
7th gen - Xbox 360

If you go the one console to rule them all approach you could go with the PS3 and its emulated forms from the prior gens, but that's cheating.

I vote the SNES as it had two of the best Final Fantasies and Chrono Trigger (and ActRaiser).  

[ptdebate1]

ActRaiser,

Just out of curiosity, why 360 over PS3? I like both systems but I can't think of much RPG-wise that's on 360 but not on PS3 (Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon are rare examples), whereas there are numerous examples of the reverse (PS3 RPGs that aren't on 360).

I'd vote the backwards-compatible PS3 as the king of RPGs.

[PinMike86661]

SNES/Super Famicom is often considered as the king of the older home consoles, followed by the Sony PS1 and PS2. Also, handhelds such as the Game Boy Advance (w/ Game Boy and Game Boy Color compatibility), Nintendo DS (with Game Boy Advance compatibility), Sony PSP, Nintendo 3DS (with DS compatibility), and Sony PS Vita (with download-only PSP compatibility) are also considered as the best RPG consoles as well. Finally, a gaming PC, while not really a console, is home to many great Western-RPGs and has gotten some Japanese-RPGs over the past years.

While not considered kings of the genre, other consoles worth looking into are the Atari 2600 (the Supercharger game Dragonstomper and the Atari Age homebrew Dungeon), Intellivision (Dungeons & Dragons games), NES (several notable RPGs), Sega Genesis/Mega Drive (ditto, especially with the Power Base Converter and CD add-ons), Sega Saturn (Shining Force III series and Panzer Dragoon Saga), Sega Dreamcast (Grandia II and a few others), Nintendo GameCube (Paper Mario, Fire Emblem, and a few Dreamcast RPGs made it to the console), Mircosoft Xbox (Star Wars: KotR series), Microsoft Xbox 360 (Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon), Sony PS3 (Demon's Souls, Ni no Kuni, and Valkyria Chronicles series), and Nintendo Wii (Xenoblade Chronicles and GameCube backwards compatibility).

[Rev1]

I think the three systems with the strongest RPG library would have to be the SNES, PS1, and PS2. I don't think any other system even comes close to the huge library of RPG's these three systems have (the PS3 would probably be the next closest followed by the Genesis/Sega CD). Here's the list of games I've heard of as being pretty good to excellent RPG's.

SNES:
Bahamut Lagoon (Import)
Breath of Fire 1 and 2
Chrono Trigger
Dragons Quest 1 & 2, 3, 4-6 (Import only)
Earthbound
Final Fantasy IV and VI
Front Mission (import)
Illusion of Gaia
Lufia 1 and 2
Ogre Battle
Secret of Evermore
Secret of Mana
Secret of Mana 2 (Import)
Star Ocean (Import)
Super Mario RPG
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (Import)
Terranigma (Import)
Treasure Hunter G (Import)
Ys series (2 imports, 1 US release)

PS1:
Arc the Lad Collection
Azure Dreams
Brigandine The Legend of Forsena
Chrono Cross
Dragon Warrior VII
Final Fantasy Anthology
Final Fantasy Chronicles
Final Fantasy VII-IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Front Mission 3
Grandia
Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth
Legend of Dragoon, The
Lunar and Lunar 2
Ogre Battle Limited Edition
Parasite Eve
Persona and Persona 2
Star Ocean: the Second Story
Suikoden and Suikoden II
Tactics Ogre
Tales of Destiny
Threads of Fate
Vagrant Story
Vandal Hearts 1 and II
Valkyrie Profile
Vanguard Bandits
Wild Arms and Wild Arms 2


PS2:
.hack//series (original and GU)
Ar Tonelico series
Arc the Lad
Dark Cloud 1 and 2
Disgaea 1 and 2
Dragon Quest VIII
Final Fantasy X, X-2, and XII
Grandia II
GrimGrimoire
Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2
Odin Sphere
Romance of the Three Kingdoms series
Romancing Saga
Sakura Wars
Shadow Hearts series
Shin Megami Tensei series (huge list)
Star Ocean
Suikoden series
Suikoden Tactics
Valkyrie Profile 2
Wild Arms series
Xenosaga 1-3

These are all games I own although I admit I haven't played them all. Still, there are even more games out there, but you can kind of get an idea of what each system offers by looking at the list.

 

As far as traditional RPG's are concerned, I feel that the SNES probably has the best of the three consoles. Classics such as Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy IV and VI, Earthbound, and others were all released for this console and were pretty much brand new titles at the time. The SNES was king of new series in the time period where Square was pretty much associated with AAA quality (although the PS1 was as well). Still, arguments could easily be made for the PS1 and PS2 as well since the PS2 games have aged very well, offering a variety of different game styles, a much larger selection of RPG's then the SNES, and fine tuned mechanics (for the most part).

 

When it comes to tactical RPG's, I think Sony has Nintendo beat with a much larger selection of titles (especially since the U.S saw a very limited run of tactical games on the SNES when compared to any of the Sony consoles).

Still, this debate could really go in any way. I personally like the SNES RPG's the best since I love the 2D graphics, the classic titles, and much more about these games.

[ActRaiser1]

[QUOTE=ptdebate]ActRaiser, Just out of curiosity, why 360 over PS3? I like both systems but I can't think of much RPG-wise that's on 360 but not on PS3 (Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon are rare examples), whereas there are numerous examples of the reverse (PS3 RPGs that aren't on 360). I'd vote the backwards-compatible PS3 as the king of RPGs. [/QUOTE]

I guess in my humble opinion the 360 versions came out first and then a year or so later they might come out on the PS3.  I'm mainly thinking of Eternal Sonata and the early years of the 360.  I remember reading of bad ports of Oblivion and others so that probably tainted my perception as well.

In the early years the 360 had the most JRPGs which I found somewhat humorous as the PS3 was a Japanese system.  Now, you're right, the PS3 probably has more RPGs.  But my perception at least was that the 360 had the RPGs sooner and often better quality.

Additional exclusives I can think of are Witcher 2 and Tales of Vesperia.

[ptdebate1]

I guess I never thought about the 360 that way, but you're right. It's crazy how some Japanese developers were betting it all on a console so unpopular over there. I was also reminded of Star Ocean: The Last Hope, The Last Remnant, and Infinite Undiscovery. 

Many of the early efforts on 360 were mediocre or bad, however--such as the three I just mentioned. Vesperia is a gem but Eternal Sonata is skippable. As far as I can tell, the two versions of Oblivion are equivalent, but I could be wrong. 

Mass Effect, however, was a major coup for MS, considering that there would absolutely nothing of an equivalent level of quality offered by Sony until a full year later. 2008 was the year PS3 broke out of its slump with exclusives like MGS4, Disgaea 3, Valkyria Chronicle.

All considered, PS3 has more and higher-quality RPGs than the 360, in my opinion. 

[JWK1]

Great topic.  I was actually going to start this exact same discussion a couple of weeks ago and just got busy.  Great minds and all that... eh, JLH?  

Well, narrowing it down to 3 is incredibly easy: SNES, PS1 and PS2.  I know some will disagree, but I'd disqualify the DS and PSP.  They're great machines and have great JRPGs, but a huge percentage of them are ports from the three systems I've listed.  Sure, The World Ends With You, Radiant Historia and Bowser's Inside Story are all fantastic, but the biggest RPGs on the system came from the SNES: Chrono Trigger (direct port), Final Fantasty IV (SNES remake) and the 3 Dragon Quest games (Japan-only PS2 remakes of the SNES originals-- Well, I guess DQ IV was a NES game).  PSP was even more port-happy.  Star Ocean 2, Ys I & II, Disgaea 1 and 2, Final Fantasy IV, Tactics Ogre, Valkyrie Profile, Persona 3 (a.k.a. "The Best RPG Ever Made"), Riviera, Final Fantasy Tactics, etc. were all ports or remakes. 

I think it's important to decide whether or not a port counts as a game for the system it was ported to.  For example, I wouldn't consider Final Fantasy VI or Chrono Trigger PS1 games.  They were created for the SNES with the SNES system and controls in mind.  On PS1, they're simply ports with terrible load times.  Shouldn't count if you ask me.  Remakes could be up for debate.  I'd have to think about that.

Anyway, narrowing it down from those three is insanely difficult, in my opinion.  Rev hit almost every big game and hidden gem I can think of.  He also has an amazing RPG collection, especially those Super Famicom imports.  While the NA RPG releases for the SNES are pretty strong on their own-- It's pretty much a given at this point that Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger are the 2 greatest console RPGs of all-time-- adding the imports probably puts it just slightly above the other two PlayStation systems.  I've said it before and I'll say it again; every JRPG fan should have a working emulator to play fan-translated versions of those Japan-exclusive SNES games.  Seiken Densetsu 3, Bahamat Lagoon, Final Fantasy V, Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, Front Mission, Romancing SaGa 3, Live a Live, Terranigma... you guys HAVE to play these games if you haven't already.  If you want a more authentic experience, go for a SNES flash cart.

But the PS1's library is just incredible, too.  Especially when developers kept their games in 2D.  Suikoden II, Breath of Fire 3 and 4, and Persona 2 look great, even today.  And Valkyrie Profile may be the most gorgeous sprite-based game of the 5th generation.  So much great stuff.  While I own quite a few of Rev's list as well, my favorite place to play PS1 RPGs is on the Vita.  I know, I know... no scan lines like when I play on my awesome Sony Trinitron Wega, but dang if the OLED screen doesn't make up for it.  PS2 I'd probably put at #3, simply because of the change in style.  The jump from PS1 to PS2 was massive, and as such there were far better looking 3D RPGs.  Also, developers really hit their stride in terms of refinement to inventory and battle systems, but it seems like every JRPG had to be as"epic" on the PS2... as in really long.  TONS of padding.  I'm fine with Chrono Trigger lasting 20 hours because it's a tight, focused game.  I don't need dozens of hours of aimless wandering.  That's a minor gripe.  I own most of Rev's list, plus a few others and I'm still trying to collect 'em all.  Just before Christmas, I got the 2 Ar Tonelico games, Atelier Iris, Mana Khemia 1, Wild Arms 3 and Suikoden V.  The highlights for me are Persona 3 (duh) and 4, Odin Sphere, Final Fantasy X, Dragon Quest 8, Shadow Hearts: Covenant, Grandia III, and SMT: Digital Devil Saga I & II.

As much as I love the SNES and its RPGs, it's not the clear winner for #1.  It is for me today, but ask me in a month and I may change my mind.  What a great thing for JRPG enthusiasts to have THREE home consoles filled with incredible RPGs.

[scotland171]

Its interesting to see the 90s put forward as an RPG golden age.  Its odd in that for actual table top RPGs, it was anything but a golden age.

Coming from computer RPGs from the tabletop world, I do miss the early attempts.  RPGS for computers meant turn based combat, labyrinths and puzzles, but in a tabletop world are more open.  The attempts to bring that into computers are text adventures of the 80s (think infocom) where a text parser gave you much more freedom.  It was not what you think of as RPG, as it was missing most of the mechanics, but it did have the role play part down. 

For something more gameplay centric, the earlier attempts to port tabletop mechanics into computer gameplay included things like the Ultima series, Bards Tale, Wizardry, and Telengard.    Ultima IV in particular is interesting for really investing in the 'role play' part - where its not just kill the beastie and save the world.  Rather, the world does not need saving...you do.  What other game has you wandering about giving away your money (and sometimes your blood). 

These types of adventures did not translate well to a console sans keyboard, and so went away.  Well, no keyboards and the fact that, unless you were a real diehard RPG lover, they were kinda boring compared to playing Legend of Zelda.   Why wade through all those menus when you can whack something with your sword, am I right? 

Now we have openworlds of games like Skyrim.   Graphically awe inspiring, yet here we are saying the golden age was SNES, PS1 and PS2.  Seems like the genre, in moving away from turn based games to action games, which can be more fun, like Zelda was more fun than Ultima IV, are also less RPG'ish. Skyrim looks like an RPG, maybe its called an RPG, but its an action game.  Like Zelda is an action game.  Great fun, and I love Zelda...but its not at all like Ultima.  
 
So, for me, the 80s had some great attempts at RPGs that unfortunately did not age well.  The 90s had acceptable graphics, kept and refined the 80s RPG gameplay elements to work easily with a controller, and we got some great games.  Now we have fun open world games, but have gone more for action in fantasy settings.   

The follow up question is if RPGs have their best days behind them (SNES, PS1, PS2), are having them now, or if their best days still lie ahead somewhere after a current style has passed away.  I don't know.  Some genres, like 2D platformers have made comebacks.  Maybe old school turn based RPGs, like Bravely Default can bring back the older style of RPGs.