Let's DIscuss DLC

General and high profile video game topics.
velcrozombie1
Posts: 400
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby velcrozombie1 » November 6th, 2014, 9:57 am

So, DLC is bad - except when it's good?

Nintendo seems to be doing DLC right, but it's not as if other games haven't had good DLC. Take The Binding of Isaac: Wrath of the Lamb DLC - for $5 you can double the depth and breadth of the original game. Take Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon - a $15 standalone game that a lot of people prefer to the original. Even something like the DLC from Bioshock Infinite, which tells a side story that goes back to the setting of the original game in the series to tie everything together. The crap that Call of Duty pulls with DLC doesn't have to be the norm.

Time can also change the value of DLC. You've mentioned in the past how you won't purchase a game until it falls into your price range. I do the same thing, and that often lets me purchase a game complete with all it's DLC at a bargain price. A few months ago I bought Borderlands 2 with all of it's DLC on Steam for $9.99. You can go to Walmart right now and buy a number of games for $20-30 with all their DLC (not to say that these would be games you would personally be interested in, but that's not the point). If you're willing to wait a little while already, you can get everything at once at a reasonable price.

Tron1
Posts: 401
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby Tron1 » November 6th, 2014, 12:01 pm

So MK 8 hits the STANDARD with tracks and that's good enough. That may be part of the problem. A long time ago developers tried to squeeze everything into a game. The goal was to create the best they could and have the ultimate product. Now the goal is to meet a STANDARD and charge extra for DLC.

When games have DLC integrated into the game without even needing the internet to enable it I can't help but think they've held back on making the most complete game that they could have. Take Fire Emblem Awakening for example; the game has DLC built right into the cartridge. Maybe the content isn't on the cartridge, but the access point is clearly designed into it. Now as great as this game is the character models have no dang feet! It looks ridiculously stupid. Clearly they didn't bother finishing the models yet they were able to add DLC and that's what bothers me. DLC should come after the product is finished, but in this case it was clearly a higher priority then even the aesthetics of the game.

Sure Nintendo is doing DLC right in comparison to most other companies. I'm not saying they aren't. What I am saying is DLC takes away from the quality and value of the initial product. Maybe not 100% of the time, but certainly more than 50% so as a rule of thumb I think it's safe to say that DLC is more beneficial for publishers than it is for gamers.

Yes Nintendo is doing DLC better than most, if not all other companies, but I still have questions. For one Nintendo is a business just like Sony & Micro$oft. I don't think they're as dissimilar as we sometimes like to think. They are out for immediate gains to satisfy the fat cats. The Wii U is not selling as well as the competition. If it were dominating would they still be offering the same kind of value in DLC or would they be more like Activision? I don't expect an answer. It's a hypothetical question that cant really be answered fairly. Still I think it's important enough to contemplate the possibilities.

Ultimately Nintendo was the last hold out to embrace the internet. I understand that from a business sense they need to do this in order to survive, but still....... Still it makes me kinda sad. The industry will continue to spiral. No instruction booklets, case with holes in it, micro-transactions, DLC, patches, subscription services, internet requirements, no compilations, phasing out home multiplayer and for what? Multiplayer online? Patches to fix games that weren't properly tested? Extra content for games? It seems like a bad trade to me.

scotland171
Posts: 816
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby scotland171 » November 6th, 2014, 12:20 pm

[QUOTE=Segatarious]Did anyone else read Gleeb's post?

THAT is the kind of DLC I have criticised. [/QUOTE]

THAT is what you are criticizing now. Before it was any DLC; before it was any downloadable content post a physical full price release. That is what you told us a year ago. You went from No Never Nunca not on my watch to if it has good value and at least some time has gone by since the main release. That is a change from No to Yes When.

I agree with Oltobaz that your opinion is malleable and not apostasy and we can move on unless your goal is some measure of validation of your being consistent.

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby Segatarious1 » November 6th, 2014, 6:16 pm

I am sorry, but Mario Kart is an extremely finished and polished game. I will not criticism it for having 32 full blown original and remastered tracks. the game is A+, through and through.

As fars as FE awakening, well I think the feet was an art choice, and no way is that game unfinished either. It is a polished game full of content and challenge, I did not bother to even look at the DLC, I forgot it had it.

So yes, DLC is bad, unless it is good. And no, I only ever criticized bad DLC on this board, I defy you to show where I ever criticized good DLC that was an expansion to a game, and not a screwfest to the consumer. Why all the angst? The battle with the consumer is already lost, look how many people shop at gamestop and have signed up for EA all access whatever service. You cannot save anything or anyone, you can only decide what YOU will buy.

And I am just as harsh a critic against bad DLC as I have ever been, and have never bought bad DLC, and never will.....

Tron1
Posts: 401
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby Tron1 » November 6th, 2014, 7:39 pm

Art choice my foot. Pun intended. Only art choice in that is that they chose not to finish the dang job so in that sense it was an art choice. A very bad one. Really Sega?? I'm disappointed in you for even going there. You're better than that flim flam excuse.

scotland171
Posts: 816
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby scotland171 » November 6th, 2014, 8:29 pm

[QUOTE=Segatarious]... I only ever criticized bad DLC on this board, I defy you to show where I ever criticized good DLC that was an expansion to a game, and not a screwfest to the consumer. [/QUOTE]

You don't need to 'defy' me, if that was for my benefit.  I like you, but this is like that Lazic pianist guy.  I will point out that NOW you are using adjectives like "Bad" DLC and "Good" DLC.  You did not do that before.  Here are a few posts just from the last 18 months or so.

a) 05May2014: "I admit I was and am surprised by both the depth and the continuation of the Xbox One fall out - these are the same people who happily embraced - following the lead of the game media - every negative pay wall, advertising, dlc, hidden costs, etc"

b) 16May2014: "[Western gaming is bad because] ... pay full price for game... then pay for DLC."

c) 14June2013: "Lets face it, high budget games are the root of all evil in gaming right now....the explosion of in game fees - DLC, microtransactions, online passes, subscriptions, etc."

d) 02April2013: "You just cannot get software that good any where else [but Nintendo], especially not on a tablet, which from my experience are filled with crummy games with crummy controls and usually terrible payment plans, dlc, free to pay, etc"

Notice that your scorn is for DLC, without any adjectives or qualifiers or modifiers or even any ambiguity.  You did not distinguist good DLC from bad DLC, it was like dog poop...its all bad.

Actually, I appreciated your firm stance against DLC.  It sounded like a conviction, and not just a preference.  Even if you stood alone, I like a person who has some convictions. I interpreted your stance as a belief that DLC diminished the industry. One way it did so was by being a body blow to physical media, and as retro gamers, we like physical media.  Whether its good DLC or bad DLC, its 'downloadable' by definition, and therefore an evolution away from physical media. Its also easier for developers to build expansions to an existing game than create a new one from whole clothe. 

However, your new position of 'good DLC but not bad DLC' puts you in the majority now.   Who can argue with 'only buy stuff if you think its good'.  

You have your opinion that your opinion has not changed, and I have brought up rebuttal posts in my opinion it has changed.   I like you, and this is not a conversation I want to invest in any more, and risk losing your insight on other opinions I may have.  I look forward to our next respectful and thoughtful conversation about something else.

snakeboy1
Posts: 1446
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby snakeboy1 » November 6th, 2014, 9:20 pm

[QUOTE=Tron]Art choice my foot. Pun intended. Only art choice in that is that they chose not to finish the dang job so in that sense it was an art choice. A very bad one. Really Sega?? I'm disappointed in you for even going there. You're better than that flim flam excuse. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the feet were left out because of sheer laziness.  I can picture the scene right now...

Game Designer #1:  Okay, the game is done...oh, wait!  We forgot the feet!

Game Designer #2 (munching on some Cool Ranch Doritos):  Aw, screw it.  I'm tired.

Game Designer #1:  Really, it's not a problem.  Making models of feet isn't that hard.  We can whip some up in no time flat..

Game Designer #2:  I said forget it.  Anyways, Nickelodeon has a Full House marathon coming on soon, and I loves me some Dave Coulier.

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby Segatarious1 » November 6th, 2014, 9:28 pm

Scotland, the bad DLC historically far out weighs the good. These 'extra fees' were the story of gaming last gen, and the hardcore bought and continues to buy dubious DLC, while I have scorned it.

Nintendo takes good DLC to a higher level. That Call of Duty DLC is ridiculous. If Nintendo was offering COD DLC and I praised it, yes, that would be a flip flop. This is not a flip flop, because my views have not changed.

When has EA done DLC as good as this Nintendo DLC I have bought? EA has some terrible free to play and DLC schemes out there, I shake my head. And I am sorry, but Nintendo commitment to quality and finished games is far beyond what typical major Western game companies do. Sometimes I think you guys get so bent out of shape trying to be 'altruistic' that you do not realize you are the ones with the crooked view point. There is good and bad, and quality, and mess.

I try to get the most for my money.


gleebergloben1
Posts: 687
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby gleebergloben1 » November 6th, 2014, 11:29 pm

And yet, even after my original post that exposes my buffoonery, no one has yet to call me a sucker, chump, cad, or even a tired half-wit. I am crestfallen, to say the least.

ZetaX1
Posts: 577
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Let's DIscuss DLC

Postby ZetaX1 » November 7th, 2014, 12:57 am

If you are a collector, all DLC (anything that doesn't come on physical media) is bad.

If you're okay with the idea that parts of your games will one day, probably, be lost when a hard drive fails or your console buys the farm, then buy whatever DLC you want.

Slightly different topic - as a collector, I'm torn when it comes to ever getting an Xbone or a PS4... If the physical media won't work without an immediate update/patch/glorified DLC (I'm looking at you, Halo Collection), what the hell good is physical media? What happens when the servers are shut down...you won't be able to buy an old copy of the game and play it?

As Mr. Calrissian would say, this deal is getting worse all the time.


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