Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

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Leo1
Posts: 2325
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby Leo1 » December 2nd, 2014, 8:13 pm

And I see that another stability update is awaiting me for the next time I fire up my Wii U. These firmware updates are starting to feel like a weekly occurrence. 

I liked how it was on the Wii where there was one update a year, if that.

HardcoreSadism1
Posts: 526
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby HardcoreSadism1 » December 2nd, 2014, 10:43 pm

[QUOTE=Leo]
I liked how it was on the Wii where there was one update a year, if that.
[/QUOTE]

I liked how it wasn't that much of a thing during the Sixth Generation.

The Wii is a killer bargain for gamer's strapped for cash, but the hardware feels significantly cheaper than a Game Cube.

ActRaiser1
Posts: 2726
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby ActRaiser1 » December 3rd, 2014, 1:34 pm

Nothing to see here folks.  The greatest company in the world is on it.

http://www.joystiq.com/2014/12/03/psa-nintendo-investigating-wii-u-error-code-issues/

Phew, I was worried there for a bit.

[tongue]

JWK1
Posts: 904
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby JWK1 » December 3rd, 2014, 5:04 pm

I've been reading the updates to this thread for a good week or so and I had a few thoughts.  I think we're jumping to the most drastic conclusions on both ends of the spectrum.  Surely, we can agree that the truth lies somewhere in between "Nintendo is the best at what they do and have a better grasp on modern gaming than anyone" and "Wii U epic fail.  Nintendo is the new Sega... or should be."

First off, the point made about Nintendo creating software to SELL THEIR HARDWARE is spot-on.  Half the reason Nintendo keeps making, say, Pokemon isn't just to make money off the software sales.  It's to sell the only system you can play that game on, a Nintendo handheld, which leads to even more software sales which makes them money on top of money on top of money.  If Nintendo didn't have that incentive, we wouldn't see the Marios and Zeldas on PS4 and XBox One like so many think.  Sure, I'd love the thought of being able to play every type of game I want to on one system, but that isn't how this industry works.  In fact, it isn't how MOST industries work.

I did want to make a quick point about Sega.  While they certainly don't pump out the mainstream stuff they did during the 16-bit era, they still make games like the Yakuza franchise, Sega All Stars Racing, and the Valkyria Chronicles games.  All fantastic.  But all pretty niche.  I'm happier than anyone that they were willing to step up and buy out Atlas, but again, JRPGs and Strategy JRPGs are pretty niche.  There was a slight buzz about the possibility of "Dreamcast 2" (around the same time that people thought the Steam Box was going to rival other home consoles-- LOL) but what could Sega do to promote that thing?  A Sonic game, so we could be burnt AGAIN like we have for the last 10+ years?  Another Sonic racing game, so people could say, "It's *almost* as good as having Mario Kart!!  I'm totally buying Sega's new system"?  Pipe dreams.

As for Nintendo having more of a grasp on the current gaming industry than anyone else is laughable.  If anything, no one is more behind the times than Nintendo.  That sounds like a slam... and it is, but only to a degree.  The Wii U is (whether you admit it or not) a core-focused gaming console.  The casuals of the Wii days are LONG gone and those left over are the Nintendo faithful.  Not a bad thing when your faithful can be counted in the millions, but it's not enough to set the world on fire.  What's more is... it doesn't have to.  Nintendo's strong software is pushing their hardware, just like it always has.  Nintendo will be able to do this for a long time to come.  I firmly believe that Nintendo is unwilling to cater to the modern gamer.  And I also believe that they should be praised for that... to an extent.  I need a gaming company who is willing to create something other than M-rated titles to sell hardware and software.  While Sony and Microsoft have the occasional Lego title to pad out the library and include kids, it's not their focus.  With Nintendo it is; their biggest titles are usually E rated and are genuinely fun for every age group and every type of gamer-- 5 to 95.  And it's the Bayonetta's that are the rarity instead of the other way around.  They've also proved (with Monolith soft and others) that titles that would ONLY cater to the hardcore (Xenoblade Chronicles) can still be rated T.  It's still our family-friendly Nintendo of old and I think they've done a good job maintaining that in the 8th generation.  

But, while they don't rely exclusively on nostalgia, it's a big part of their approach.  Moreover, why the bad sales?  Why don't third parties want to work with the system?  Answer: The gamepad.  Nintendo always has a gimmick, and in this case it's costly and difficult to develop for.  Nintendo should create a "lower-tier" package without the gamepad to lower the price.  They've done this all the way back to the NES days, when they first decided to start selling bundles the didn't include R.O.B.  It's not a sign of weakness or abandonment.  It's smart business.  As others have mentioned, Sony did this to a degree with the PS3 and Microsoft basically did an about-face with the XBox One.  Both companies have been rewarded with better sales.  Period.  Nintendo NEEDS to do this.

Lastly, it's ridiculous for Steer to say that because Ubisoft botched the new AC game that "Sony and Microsoft's third party support is just as terrible as Nintendo's."  Give me a break.  Does the Wii U have Call of Duty?  Does the Wii U have Destiny?  Does the Wii U have Shadows of Mordor or Dragon Age: Inquisition?  It's not the same... not even close.  But as I said before, it doesn't need to be.  I enjoy options.  And I love that I can play an incredibly violent game like Shadows of Mordor that's just for me and have the option to play Mario Kart 8 with the rest of my family.  Nintendo shouldn't go third party.  But you're lying to yourself if you say they don't make some of the same mistakes that the other 2 big companies do and they don't need to rethink their strategy in some serious ways.


Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby Segatarious1 » December 3rd, 2014, 7:28 pm

[QUOTE=JWK]


Lastly, it's ridiculous for Steer to say that because Ubisoft botched the new AC game that "Sony and Microsoft's third party support is just as terrible as Nintendo's."  Give me a break.  Does the Wii U have Call of Duty?  Does the Wii U have Destiny?  Does the Wii U have Shadows of Mordor or Dragon Age: Inquisition?  It's not the same... not even close.  But as I said before, it doesn't need to be.  I enjoy options.  And I love that I can play an incredibly violent game like Shadows of Mordor that's just for me and have the option to play Mario Kart 8 with the rest of my family.  Nintendo shouldn't go third party.  But you're lying to yourself if you say they don't make some of the same mistakes that the other 2 big companies do and they don't need to rethink their strategy in some serious ways.

[/QUOTE]

Misquoted me.

I said Xbox One and Ps4 had poor 3rd party EXCLUSIVE support. And they do. Those games are available on PC, PS3 and Xbox 360.



Leo1
Posts: 2325
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby Leo1 » December 3rd, 2014, 9:54 pm

[QUOTE=Segatarious][QUOTE=JWK]Lastly, it's ridiculous for Steer to say that because Ubisoft botched the new AC game that "Sony and Microsoft's third party support is just as terrible as Nintendo's." [/QUOTE]

Misquoted me.

I said Xbox One and Ps4 had poor 3rd party EXCLUSIVE support. And they do. Those games are available on PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. [/QUOTE]

Actually, this is what you said.

[QUOTE=Segatarious]The irony about 'good' third party support is that PS4 and Xbox One do not have any either. They also have very little in the way of exclusives, period. [/QUOTE]

Sure, you made a claim that the XB1/PS4 have very little in the way of exclusives in the second sentence, but that's all you said. You did not make the quantification that you claimed you did. You flat out said that neither the XB1 or the PS4 have "good" 3rd party support. 

If you were out to claim that the Xbox One and the Playstation 4 have little that are exclusive to one or the other, or little in the way that was at least a next gen exclusive, you should've said so.

We're not mind mind readers. Posting a more coherent message that actually expresses what you claimed that you meant to say, so that we can at least respond to what we read instead of guessing like apparently we're supposed to, would be highly recommended if you want to avoid such a misstep in the future. 

[QUOTE=Segatarious]Why would Nintenod go thrid party, and presumably support Sony or MS[/QUOTE]

They'd go 3rd party if they view that as more viable than continuing with their own hardware. Something that hopefully isn't going to happen, but still a possibility in a generation or two that can't be dismissed in light of their current sales statistics and financials. It's just a minor bump in the road at the moment, but it remains to be seen how they're going to recover from it. It all depends on what happens over the next few years.

And they'd publish for MS/Sony consoles for the same reason why anyone else would. There's a lot of money to be made there. If they were to go 3rd party in say 5 or 10 years (Surely, nobody thinks that the 3DS and the Wii U will mark the end), they're not going to just ignore that segment if it remains a profitable endeavor just because they're the competitors that drove them out of this sphere as a hardware maker. 

They're businessmen, not fanboys. 

[QUOTE=Segatarious]MS gutted XboxONE, true, but they have yet to turn it around.[/QUOTE]

Explain then why this Fall, they quickly closed the wide gap to the PS4 and did a booming business on Black Friday?

Sure looks like a turnaround to me.

N64Dude1
Posts: 1242
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby N64Dude1 » December 8th, 2014, 12:38 am

To put simply, I don't think they'd be any different if they went software only. They still have the same minds working...and that's where it matters most. They'll probably leave only when it starts to look too expensive and bloated to stay in, and before they go into debt.

Sega on the other hand does not, they lost most of the good minds when Dreamcast was axed, another round when Sammy bought them, all of which came from debt because of Saturn being botched up because Japan and America couldn't cooperate. And Sony wasn't letting them back up anytime soon. 

But Big N doesn't have those issues, they are unified and savvy.

This savviness is an ally.





Vexer1
Posts: 883
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Nintendo's quality output as a third-party developer

Postby Vexer1 » December 8th, 2014, 4:21 am

They weren't too savvy with the Wii U, considering that a lot of third-party developers were alienated as a result of it.


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