Games that killed/ruined the genres Reception in certain regions/consoles/gave negative stigmas, etc?

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Stalvern
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Re: Games that killed/ruined the genres Reception in certain regions/consoles/gave negative stigmas, etc?

Postby Stalvern » August 14th, 2017, 8:53 am

Sonicx9 wrote:pacman000 you have a good point about a major flop to poison the public's view of a genre. What my post was about was relating with FlyingOmelette.com point on how Yoshi's Story was the game being responsible for killing 2D games on console systems at that time and remained like this up until the 7th Gen making it go to a slump.

And what I did was take some lesser known games that might have done a similar thing to what Yoshi's Story did during that time frame because I have noticed something.

But Yoshi's Story did not do that. It just didn't. 2D games had already fallen from popularity well before 1998. That website is completely wrong.

And Trevor McFur is not a major flop. It barely even qualifies as a minor flop. It came and went a fart in the wind.

Sonicx9 wrote:There was a time that 2D Shmups where very popular and beloved in the west just like in Japan where they where king at that time period. But once the Street Fighter 2/Mortal Kombat fighting game boom started it was slowly waning in popularity in the west. But once a poorly received game in the genre like Trevor McFur in the Crescent Galaxy came out. The 2D Shmups market in the west mostly crashed and burn as it was mostly non-existent sense then. I mean how many 2D Shmups in the west got well received by professional critics in 1994 to the present moment, not that many. Yes you had exceptions that where well like such as Ikaruga. But even then 2D Shmups became super Niche

First, critical dislike does not make a genre become niche; in fact, critics are more likely to appreciate niche games. Einhänder and R-Type Delta got very positive reviews, regardless of how well they sold in the West. Even your own example of Ikaruga was a critical darling that very few people actually purchased.

Second, look at the time frame. Which is more likely to have affected shoot-em-ups in 1994, the release of one crappy Jaguar game the previous year (a year that, let's not forget, also had Raiden II, R-Type III, and In the Hunt, which would have been very difficult for Trevor McFur to overshadow)... or, over in Japan, the release of the 3D-oriented PlayStation and Saturn and the ascendancy of bullet-hell games, a subgenre inaccessible to all but the most obsessively focused players? Let's not pretend that DonPachi or Radiant Silvergun would have been flying off American shelves under even the best circumstances. With 2D rapidly going out of fashion and shoot-em-ups actively pursuing a cult, elite player base, the mid- and late '90s could only be a troubled time for the genre, Trevor McFur or not.

Sonicx9 wrote:similar to how Japanese games on console became super Niche during the 7th Gen/early 8th Gen where there where a share of Japanese games that where well received like many of Nintendo offerings, Demon/Dark Souls/Bloodborne, Platinum Games offerings, etc. But even then, 90% of the Japanese games during that time period got panned by critics just like how 90% of 2D Shmups in the west got panned by critics for similar reasions?

90% of Japanese games are not panned, and neither are 90% of shoot-em-ups, and their commercial declines are neither comparable (if the Japanese game industry were doing as well as shoot-em-ups right now, there wouldn't be a Japanese game industry) nor due to comparable causes.

ThePixelatedGenocide wrote:The original NES Final Fantasy was released unfinished, with broken mechanics (INT does nothing, elemental weapon damage isn't working, etc) , and when combined with the incredibly repetitive Dragon Warrior (we didn't know Akira Toriyama back then, so it got no points for his involvement), they nearly killed off the JRPG market in America.

That's not really comparable. They literally created that market. It's not like Americans were fans of JRPGs until those games put them off the genre; those games were the genre in '86 and '87.
Last edited by Stalvern on August 14th, 2017, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

pacman000
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Re: Games that killed/ruined the genres Reception in certain regions/consoles/gave negative stigmas, etc?

Postby pacman000 » August 14th, 2017, 8:55 am

Paul Campbell wrote:
pacman000 wrote:It's not impossible for a major flop to poison the public's view of a genre. It's also possible for a major flop to convince companies to invest in other genres.

I read an essay once, can't remember where, which suggested Atari's poor Pac-Man port hurt the public's confidence in video games, or at least Atari. The author compared reviews of games before and after Pac-Man. The reviews from before tended to defend games as if to justify them as a legitimate hobby; the reviews after tended to pick the game apart. Even if the game got good reviews the reviews seemed jaded; the reviewers had to remind everyone how bad Pacman was.


Wow. I would LOVE to read actual old reviews of early games, when the industry was in its infancy. If you know where I can find these things, let me know...


http://www.8bitrocket.com/2017/04/05/pa ... -game-war/

Here's the article I referred to. I think it only has excerpts tho. I think Digital Press or some of the sites they host/link to have a few.

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 114
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Games that killed/ruined the genres Reception in certain regions/consoles/gave negative stigmas, etc?

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » August 18th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy were the 2 most high profile JRPGs released in the west, yes. They weren't the only ones, or even the first to reach America, as any Sega fan will be happy to tell you.

Besides -

Once there were enough decent ones available on Nintendo platforms as well, the worry that the genre itself was too Japanese for American tastes suddenly seemed a bit ridiculous, didn't it?

jon
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Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Games that killed/ruined the genres Reception in certain regions/consoles/gave negative stigmas, etc?

Postby jon » August 18th, 2017, 11:27 pm

There was a push in the mid 1990's to get rid of 2d. It wasn't just shmups, it was everything.


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