Wii U the new Dreamcast?

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VideoGameCritic
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Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby VideoGameCritic » November 26th, 2017, 12:32 pm

I found a pretty interesting article detailing the parallels between the Dreamcast and Wii U.

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/blog/2017 ... dreamcast/

Will the Wii U become the modern day Dreamcast? A system appreciated long after it's time?

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ptdebate
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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby ptdebate » November 26th, 2017, 1:04 pm

As much as I love the Wii U, I don't think it's worthy of the comparison.

Sega's output on the Dreamcast represents some of their best. There is also a wealth of third party titles.

As great as many Wii U games were, they are mostly surpassed by what came before and likely will be by what comes after (Mario Odyssey signalling Nintendo raising the bar yet again). The first-party Wii U titles, with the exception of BotW, don't really push the status quo. The Mario games that appeared, although enjoyable, seem like a regression from the Galaxy titles. Paper Mario was a disappointment. Metroid no-showed. Star Fox failed. It took the entire generation for a Zelda release, and by that time there was a superior platform for it.

Among home consoles, the Wii U was Nintendo at their worst. That it was still pretty good is a reflection of Nintendo's stellar track record.

Voor
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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby Voor » November 26th, 2017, 1:24 pm

I think so. You take away the poor marketing and not yet actualized gimmick, does there’s some good quality games with the Wii U. I’m actually tempted to get one now.

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Stalvern
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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby Stalvern » November 26th, 2017, 4:04 pm

People love the Dreamcast for its small but extremely unique and memorable library, for kicking off the sixth generation with its cutting-edge graphics, and for being both Sega's last stand in the console market and a focused return to form after the fumbles of their previous system. The Dreamcast is very easy to romanticize and even to justify romanticizing. What's romantic about the Wii U? That it, uh, doesn't have a whole lot of games? That Nintendo's hardware continued to lag a generation behind the competition? That the systems before and after have been far more successful and beloved? That it has a strange, clunky controller gimmick that not even Nintendo could use engagingly? There's just no comparison. If anything, it's the new Saturn, but I think that even the Saturn had more going for it.

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Retro STrife
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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby Retro STrife » November 26th, 2017, 4:50 pm

i've seen articles comparing the Wii U to the Sega Saturn, and I think that's a much better comparison. Like ptdebate said, the Dreamcast actually has a very solid lineup, both 1st and 3rd party, despite its short lifespan. The same can't be said for the Wii U, and I think the Saturn is more representative of the quality level (i.e., some real gems, but a lot more average or trash games, and very limited 3rd party support). Plus, like Sega did with the Saturn, Nintendo realized their flub and ditched the Wii U early in order to move on to the next system.

On top of that, from a collecting perspective, I also believe that the Wii U will see a huge surge in game values 5-10 years from now, much like we saw with the Saturn (and Turbografx, etc.). Why? Well, you had low sales of systems and games during the systems life (especially low sales on games, because even owners of the system eventually ditched the thing and stopped buying for it), so that creates low supply. In relation to the supply, I expect higher than normal demand...it will be easier to appreciate 10 years from now, and people will feel like they missed out on the system and games and will want to give it a shot.. plus, being a Nintendo system, you can always anticipate a good retro market for it. So low supply, and higher than expected retro demand, should create a Saturn-esque collector market for it. And it's already happening in certain ways. Some garbage games like "Turbo Super Stunt Squad" for Wii U sell for $70 on ebay, due to their rarity, despite being available for $5 on PS3 and X360. So stock up now....

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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby Alucard1191 » November 26th, 2017, 5:33 pm

Stalvern wrote:People love the Dreamcast for its small but extremely unique and memorable library, for kicking off the sixth generation with its cutting-edge graphics, and for being both Sega's last stand in the console market and a focused return to form after the fumbles of their previous system. The Dreamcast is very easy to romanticize and even to justify romanticizing. What's romantic about the Wii U? That it, uh, doesn't have a whole lot of games? That Nintendo's hardware continued to lag a generation behind the competition? That the systems before and after have been far more successful and beloved? That it has a strange, clunky controller gimmick that not even Nintendo could use engagingly? There's just no comparison. If anything, it's the new Saturn, but I think that even the Saturn had more going for it.


Lets break down the Saturn comparison a bit more... I don't even think it compares well to that. Yes, there are some similarities. Sega focused in the completely wrong direction for hardware, making it the weakest of the main 3 systems at that time, (PS, Saturn, and N64 respectively) which of course was an issue with the Wii U. I feel like that is where it ends though. Like many people have brought up already, what is there that is "must have" on the Wii U?

The switch is already off to a fantastic start. The games on the switch already seem better than the bulk of the Wii U library. Is there a Panzer Dragoon Saga equivalent for the Wii U? How about other exclusives like Burning Rangers or the like? I have only heard/read bad things about the Wii U exclusives. (Look at the Star Fox reviews on this site for example.)

The Saturn has a LOT of beloved exclusives that were not ported to other systems, making it an odd must have for serious gamers. I don't know if the Wii U will have that same future. The gimmick of the controller just doesn't seem to be enough to make it a keeper.

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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby BanjoPickles » November 26th, 2017, 6:09 pm

Eh. It's kind of a laughable comparison. The Dreamcast SHOULD have been Sega's Salvation, due to its extraordinarily diverse library of games! I mean, Sega themselves were firing on all cylinders, third party support was (initially) great, and the games looked terrific! In fact, the Dreamcast represented the first 3D console that still holds up today, in many ways. The Wii U had none of the above. I wouldn't qualify any of the first party EXCLUSIVES as among Nintendo's finest, third party support was the pits from the outset, it was grossly overpriced (Dreamcast was reasonably priced), and nothing about it seemed like a hit. Sega hit the ground running and failed, as a result of years' worth of tarnishing their own brand. The Wii U failed in spite of its predecessor.

If anything, the Wii U has more in common with the Master System: some really decent-to-great games, practically no major third party support, and it will be promptly forgotten with time.

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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby VideoGameCritic » November 26th, 2017, 7:00 pm

I thought of another parallel between the two systems.

When I had a Dreamcast I LOVED it. Other people who owned the system did too. But it seems like most of the world had no idea what a Dreamcast was.

It was the same with the Wii U. I thought it was a fantastic system with some first-rate games. Yet even my young nephew was asking "what is a Wii U"?

I advocated both systems in their hey day, but it seems like the media at large chose to ignore them.

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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby pacman000 » November 26th, 2017, 7:20 pm

It's not a 1:1 comparison with the Dreamcast since Nintendo's still in the console business, but I can see the Wii U gaining value over time, like the Saturn, VB, Jaguar, etc.

Shoot, the Wii U could almost be considered a test bed for the Switch. What self respecting collector wouldn't want a test bed system?

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Re: Wii U the new Dreamcast?

Postby JWK » November 27th, 2017, 1:24 pm

I don’t like the Dreamcast/Wii U comparison. System-wise, the comparison makes sense, but only on the lack of success and the short life span. But that’s where the similarity ends, I believe. The Dreamcast was pretty powerful and ahead of its time in terms of online capabilities. Nintendo, on the other hand, doubled down on cheaper, underpowered hardware that could barely be considered superior to the PS3/360 which were a gen older. It also had laughable online capability, almost ten years behind the times. Sega priced the Dreamcast right and it got a price drop rather quickly. Conversely, the Wii U was too expensive right out of the gate, because Nintendo was determined to once again have a gimmick; this time, a tablet.

But the games are similar, right? Not really. Despite the Dreamcast’s reputation of having a “small” library, take a look at the releases. It has a ton of games and a LOT of third party support. The Wii U can claim neither of these things. Nintendo’s console has around 20 - 25 truly great games. The DC has probably twice that. And don’t even get me started on the laughable third party support for the Wii U. Capcom’s support for the DC *alone* trumps everything the Wii U got from third parties. Even the types of games were different. NAOMI arcade board games for the Dreamcast (including a ton of excellent fighting games) vs the longer, adventure/exploration type games on the Wii U.

So, I must really hate the Wii U, right? Nope. I have two systems and three gamepads (just in case). I rate those 20+ games on Wii U easily superior to the 20+ best games on Dreamcast. And in a desert island situation, I’d take the Wii U over Dreamcast every time. But let’s not pretend the two systems overlap in anything other than being considered a commercial failure with a cult following. The Dreamcast was great for a myriad of reasons and the Wii U is great for only ONE reason; fantastic first party games.

Comparisons to the Saturn might work if we’re only looking at NA Saturn & Wii U. I could see that comparison working. But as soon as you incorporate Japanese Saturn releases, the Saturn trumps the Wii U in every way... except for after-market prices, of course.


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