PS vita: Success or failure.

General and high profile video game topics.
Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Oltobaz1 » January 2nd, 2012, 2:21 am

I don't think the Virtual Console analogy works, Nintendo
wasn't gonna use a "transfer code" with old systems like
the NES, the Master System, the Tg16... Too complicated,
if at all feasible. Yet, the Wii is fully compatible with the Gamecube,
and, as one would expect, it's free.
The Ps Vita is the successor of the PSP. All previous Sony consoles
have had some sort of backwards compatibility, and it's nice to know
downloaded PSP games can be transferred to the Vita for 0$/€. They
did however support UMD games even after the GO came out, which
makes for a lot of UMD games, at least in my own collection, and I'd have enjoyed the option to play those on my Vita. But, not for a fee.

0-Storm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby 0-Storm » January 2nd, 2012, 1:38 pm

WAIT! A PSP GO can be played using a PS3 controller on a tv, but the other PSPs can't? I want to use a PS3 controller with a PSP on a regular tv SOOOOOOOO bad, but there's no way I want a Go. I only buy physical games. If this is true then this is like the biggest kick in the teeth imaginable.

Too bad the Vita can't play regular PSP games. I don't care about downloads one way or another. I think the 3DS & Vita are going to have a tough time competing against phones. They need every edge that they can get. This is a blown opportunity for Sony.

Leo1
Posts: 2325
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Leo1 » January 2nd, 2012, 7:03 pm

But just like the Wii, there's no place to insert a UMD into the Vita. So I don't see why the situation is any different than the Virtual Console beyond the PSP representing the immediate previous generation (rather than being multiple generations behind like the systems represented on the Virtual Console are). And thankfully, thanks to the PSP's internet capabilities, at least a compromise is actually possible in this situation that offers the possibility of saving PSP owners a few dollars if they want to reacquire their games as downloads.

I wish it had a UMD drive, but since it doesn't, this strikes me as a reasonable concession to ease someone that wants to keep playing their favorite UMD game on the Vita (If it's even available on PSN and the publisher has agreed to allow it to be enrolled into this program; It's going to be such a small slice of available UMD games that it's barely better than nothing). Heck, it's more than Sony did for UMD owners buying the Go...

As for PS3 controller support, the 2000/3000 can only do it for Resistance. The game being played on your PSP (With the PSP outputing it to your tv) will communicate via WiFi to your PS3, with the PS3 handling communications to the PS3 controller via BlueTooth (Works surprisingly well). Only the Go had BlueTooth so only the Go offers full PS3 controller support.

Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Oltobaz1 » January 3rd, 2012, 3:02 am

Situation was different with the GO, it wasn't an upgrade,
just another option. Yet, many people, me included, were
confused with this choice, why would they release a non
UMD system, while still supporting UMDs? Ultimately, it was
seen as an experiment, and Sony didn't drop physical media with the
Vita, thankfully. It seems they weren't crazy about the UMD as
a format anymore though, so I'm not surprised the Vita doesn't
have a drive, I just wished UMD content could be downloaded for
free, and truly think it should. Since the GO didn't replace the PSP,
UMD PSP gamers are pretty much 'expletive' with this strategy, we
built a collection, and are now told only some of the games will work,
and for a fee, might I add. Pretty sucky, if you consider the 3DS is fully
compatible with the DS...

I'm glad you understand why I said the Virtual Console comparison
didn't work, let's just say it has its limits, no one expected
Nintendo to provide such a service, it's just a fancy feature,
a cool one, but that's beside the point. The fact is, the PSP is the
previous generation, just like the Gamecube was, or more importantly
since we're dealing with portables, just like the DS is.

With that said, I still hope the Vita will succeed, and will buy one on
day one (with Uncharted^^). Its limited backwards compatibility is a small
issue for me, as a console collector with access to UMD PSPs. But I
think what I consider a small issue might not sit so well with other gamers,
which is why I think it's a rather bad move from Sony.





Leo1
Posts: 2325
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Leo1 » January 3rd, 2012, 4:27 am

[QUOTE=Oltobaz]Yet, many people, me included, were
confused with this choice, why would they release a non
UMD system, while still supporting UMDs?[/QUOTE]

There were over 50 million UMD drive equipped PSP's out there when the Go was released. So abandoning UMD releases was never the purpose of the Go since Sony worked long and hard to get build up that install base that primarily was playing UMD games. It was simply an alternative option for people that liked the convenience and increased portability of an all DLC handheld.

How do you think Sony should've handled this? For instance, how do you keep people from abusing it if it was free and all you had to do was insert a UMD into your UMD drive equipped PSP to get the digital version of the game for free? How do you get all the publishers to go for this (Most aren't subscribing as is even with the opportunity to earn a few dollars)? What about the hundreds of PSP games that have never been made available on PSN? What about games where legal agreements have expired (Outrun 2006, for instance)? From a legal point of view, the digital version of a game is likely going to be considered a new copy of the game so it very likely wouldn't be possible under such instances to newly distribute a digital version of the game since the original UMD sale didn't include a digital copy.

Short of requipping the Vita with a UMD drive so it could play the actual UMD, I don't see how anything except a partial compromise would realistically have been possible. Frankly, I think it's rather surprising we got anything since I think they could've easily gotten away without doing anything.

Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Oltobaz1 » January 3rd, 2012, 5:13 am

I fully agree, an UMD drive should have been made available. Nobody
really expected one, but that's what they should have done, sure.
Anyways, there's none, and I guess finding a way to transfer UMD data for
free while keeping people from abusing it would require some creative
solutions, due to the facts you presented (perhaps through PSN account, and limiting at one or two transfers per game?) however, Sony had two options, either coming up with one, or, better yet, keeping the drive. Instead, we got a feature very few people will want to use, and that's too bad. Sony gave customers a choice between digital and physical medias when the GO came out, now it looks like they'll sort of "reward" people who took the digital route, and do next to nothing for the others. Yet, their newer system will actually use physical media, it's sort of a mess when you look right down to it. They should have maintained the drive, tried harder at convincing publishers, looked for another creative solution... Either way, what should have been their problem became my, and other users', disappointment. What impact this might have on sales, I truly don't know, but they lost an asset, especially in regards to the fully
backwards compatible 3DS...

David

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby David » January 3rd, 2012, 10:46 am

Oltobaz - You wish the Vita had a UMD drive? As a PSP 3000 owner with about 15 games I'm happy they didn't include one. The Vita is a thin device which would've needed to be redisigned to incorporate it. Not to mention that UMD's are a terrible format for gaming. I'm pretty content with keeping my PSP around for my UMD's and downloading the limited selection of PSP games if needed. If the PSP had used small cartridges I'd agree with you fully, but I don't think in this case it would've worked very well.

Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Oltobaz1 » January 3rd, 2012, 12:22 pm

A drive, I didn't expect, but would have welcomed. I like the Vita's design the way it is, then again, I like the UMD PSPs designs as well, so I think they could have designed the Vita different in order to accommodate a drive along with the card slot,
odds are I'd still have liked it. I understand they didn't want to keep the media to begin with, but, as long as the system is backwards compatible, they should have come up with another solution. After all, it's their mess.
Of course, it's not like we're losing our ability to play our UMDs, since we're not planning to get rid of our PSPs, so the issue is rather small for us, but it's there nonetheless, and a little frustrating. I don't like the fact people who went with the digital route are more rewarded than the others, it does seem "unfair", for lack of a better word. 

Leo1
Posts: 2325
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Leo1 » January 3rd, 2012, 5:54 pm

[QUOTE=Oltobaz]I fully agree, an UMD drive should have been made available. Nobody
really expected one, but that's what they should have done, sure.[/QUOTE]

I just would've liked it to have had it. But I don't think it should've been made available. It just would've been nice if it was there. I don't think they're under any obligation where backwards compatibility is concerned, although I'm always happy when that feature is in place in some form.

All UMD's are the same. Put in my copy of Outrun 2006 into a PSP and it's going to appear 100% identical to the next copy of the game. Short of multiple runs and revisions, there's absolutely nothing different from one copy of a game to the next. They're not unique with each having been pressed with a unique serial number.

And that means there's absolutely no way to limit the number of transfers per game since Sony has absolutely no way to tell which copy is which to limit it to a single transfer. Hence, a fee to give consumers a break if they want to purchase a digital copy of the game. Make it all free and you just encouraged widespread piracy through things like UMD rentals, UMD sharing, etc. Even if Sony was willing to do that for their 1st party lineup, it's not difficult to see absolutely no 3rd party publisher ever agreeing to it.

I think most gamers in North America have pretty much already concluded their time with the PSP, so I don't think anything they did with BC would have had much of an impact over here. But I suppose it might be a big deal in Japan where the PSP is still a big deal.

Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

PS vita: Success or failure.

Postby Oltobaz1 » January 3rd, 2012, 7:13 pm

Piracy with the PSP was pretty much widespread anyways, and, by the time
the Vita hits western shores, sales will decline even more. Maybe this plan
was designed with piracy in mind, but it's not gonna stop what's already happening, though the issue is certainly far less relevant now than it was a few
years back.
I admit the problem is complicated, how were they gonna keep backwards compatibility free with no UMD drive? Well, they could release some kind of "UMD drive adaptor" you could plug in through USB. Let's entertain that thought. There would be a program
which would let you transfer the content, and possibly render the UMD useless
until you'd want to use it again, in which case, you could transfer back. Ok. That's far fetched. Yet, in a few years from now on, we could see such devices
actually, through online stores like TOTOTEK, and these would be third party,
pirates in other words.And, forget about transfers, these would let you copy game data, and we're eventually back to square one. As you know, anytime a
console company has limited access to some of its games, small companies eventually propose solutions as there's always a demand (people modify their SNES/GENESIS etc... or purchase adaptors in order to have access to the whole catalog, for instance). Eventually, some people could want the option to access each and every UMD release on their Vita. Sure that's what their regular
PSP is here for though, right? But then, why do we see people pursuing the original PS3 fully compatible with the PS2, when PS2s are widely available, and dirt cheap?

Maybe there's actually a much easier solution I haven't thought of, I just wish Sony had come up with it. Aren't they supposed to make out dreams come true (their old commercials from the 80's). Or, maybe there weren't any solution short of keeping the drive. Either way, they favored some of their customers over others, and collaterally limited their newer system backwards library. That's something they ought to be criticized for, in my book.


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