[QUOTE=darkrage6]You can't call something a failiure before it's even launched, that's just factually wrong and inaccurate, i'm fine with people being skeptical about the system, but it's FAR too soon to be throwing the word "failure" around. I think it's silly to say that you hope it fails, I for one hope it succeeds and will eagerly buy one at some point.[/QUOTE]
Completely agree with your statement. All of this talk of the XBox One being a failure before it launches is silly. I mean, the Wii U has been out for 8 months now and by all accounts it is a failure. However, people still believe (and maybe rightly so) that is too early to actually determine that. All I know is that I think this next generation is going to come down to either the PS4 or Xbox One, I honestly do not think there is a reason for me to own both. I just do not have the time any longer to dedicate to games.
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
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NewModelArmy1
- Posts: 100
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darkrage61
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Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
Glad you agree, if you should be hoping for anything, it's that Microsoft improves on it's policies.
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ActRaiser1
- Posts: 2726
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
Personally, I'm with Marriot_Guy.
And I say this with all due respect but the first Xbox One review that I read on the VGC site, I'm going to consider with a high degree of hypocrisy. I'll look forward to it, of course, but most assuredly I'll take little stock in it.
It's fine to have opinions but is it possible some of these opinions are due to being predisposed to disliking online altogether? That's been a major theme for a number of years. Although, and again, personally I think it's a bit silly as the audience to read the VGC's reviews is online.
I seem to recall reading in a past post that the VGC needed to run a Cat5 cable to get online. If this is still an issue, a very simple solution exists that negates using Wi-Fi and still allows for a wired connection without running cables everywhere. I use this one without a problem in my basement. Our router is upstairs in the office.
If it's a concern with the eventual servers going offline, I get that and can understand and appreciate that concern. However, from prior PC experience MS can do an update to eventually eliminate that requirement prior to (or after) the Xbox Two comes out.
And I say this with all due respect but the first Xbox One review that I read on the VGC site, I'm going to consider with a high degree of hypocrisy. I'll look forward to it, of course, but most assuredly I'll take little stock in it.
It's fine to have opinions but is it possible some of these opinions are due to being predisposed to disliking online altogether? That's been a major theme for a number of years. Although, and again, personally I think it's a bit silly as the audience to read the VGC's reviews is online.
I seem to recall reading in a past post that the VGC needed to run a Cat5 cable to get online. If this is still an issue, a very simple solution exists that negates using Wi-Fi and still allows for a wired connection without running cables everywhere. I use this one without a problem in my basement. Our router is upstairs in the office.
If it's a concern with the eventual servers going offline, I get that and can understand and appreciate that concern. However, from prior PC experience MS can do an update to eventually eliminate that requirement prior to (or after) the Xbox Two comes out.
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VideoGameCritic
- Site Admin
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- Joined: April 1st, 2015, 7:23 pm
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
[QUOTE=ActRaiser]
If it's a concern with the eventual servers going offline, I get that and can understand and appreciate that concern. However, from prior PC experience MS can do an update to eventually eliminate that requirement prior to (or after) the Xbox Two comes out.[/QUOTE]
What is this "prior PC experience" you speak of?
As a software developer who is familiar with how on-line systems work, I can assure you that once the phone-home system is in place there is no mechanism or "patch" for undoing that.
This is why I'm making such a big deal of this. Once you head down this road there is no turning back. And when those Microsoft servers are turned off one day, those Xbox One games will NOT work. A few people seem to believe that they would somehow become "free" and "unlocked" but they are kidding themselves.
I know there are a lot of people out there who are saying what they want to believe. But I actually know what I'm talking about!
If it's a concern with the eventual servers going offline, I get that and can understand and appreciate that concern. However, from prior PC experience MS can do an update to eventually eliminate that requirement prior to (or after) the Xbox Two comes out.[/QUOTE]
What is this "prior PC experience" you speak of?
As a software developer who is familiar with how on-line systems work, I can assure you that once the phone-home system is in place there is no mechanism or "patch" for undoing that.
This is why I'm making such a big deal of this. Once you head down this road there is no turning back. And when those Microsoft servers are turned off one day, those Xbox One games will NOT work. A few people seem to believe that they would somehow become "free" and "unlocked" but they are kidding themselves.
I know there are a lot of people out there who are saying what they want to believe. But I actually know what I'm talking about!
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weallmissedme1
- Posts: 397
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
NewModelArmy, how is something that is in almost 4 million homes in 8 months a failure? Not to mention, it's all about games at E3. And I know denialrage6 is going to reply, so I just want to add Nintendos' good policies back up the console so games CAN boost sales. When Nintendo and Sony show off their games, they'll be a good selling pair. And if Nintendo cuts the price cut for Christmas (like the 3DS) and include Nintendo land in EVERY bundle, they'll sell like mad at Christmas.
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ActRaiser1
- Posts: 2726
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
[QUOTE=videogamecritic][QUOTE=ActRaiser]
If it's a concern with the eventual servers going offline, I get that and can understand and appreciate that concern. However, from prior PC experience MS can do an update to eventually eliminate that requirement prior to (or after) the Xbox Two comes out.[/QUOTE]
What is this "prior PC experience" you speak of?
As a software developer who is familiar with how on-line systems work, I can assure you that once the phone-home system is in place there is no mechanism or "patch" for undoing that.
This is why I'm making such a big deal of this. Once you head down this road there is no turning back. And when those Microsoft servers are turned off one day, those Xbox One games will NOT work. A few people seem to believe that they would somehow become "free" and "unlocked" but they are kidding themselves.
I know there are a lot of people out there who are saying what they want to believe. But I actually know what I'm talking about![/QUOTE]
As I've stated in the past I used to work for Digital River. Digital River provides eCommerce solutions. For example, one of those solutions being DRM tools for unlock codes. One option is called Software Passport. It offers the option to create unlock codes and a call-in system for verification. You can terminate the call in option remotely. Really, it's based on the business model and how you've configured it.
In Microsoft's case it's not all that complicated. Imagine a few simple use cases with the current proposed DRM solution in place.
Use Case 1: Game Check
This is a very simple example that doesn't include alternative paths. And it may be naive in thinking MS will unlock your console for whatever games are currently installed or that you have access to do so, but it's most certainly possible.
I'm working at another company right now where we're building a new telematics onboard computer for vehicles. We can update and replace the entire code or pieces of the code over wireless communications. We call it an OTAP (Over The Air Program). The onboard computer contains a cellular modem that allows us to communicate with our fleet for dispatching purposes.
I'm a business analyst and am fully aware of what machines are capable of based on current and prior working experience. The reason you can update code is because it was specifically designed to be updated and replaceable after the fact. If you don't design it in such a fashion, then of course not.
But we did it at Digital River. For the record Microsoft uses Digital River as one of their eCommerce channels (link). You can say whatever you want, but I know it's possible. If they choose to implement it is another story.
So there's no confusion my main focus while at Digital River was subscriptions and global payments. I spent close to 6 years there as both a BA and Product Manager. I know exactly what I'm talking about in regards to DRM and being able to update code.
Lastly, I did a quick search to find an example of a game that's been patched to pull out the DRM after the fact and found Miner Wars 2081 as one example.
Best regards,
Bud
If it's a concern with the eventual servers going offline, I get that and can understand and appreciate that concern. However, from prior PC experience MS can do an update to eventually eliminate that requirement prior to (or after) the Xbox Two comes out.[/QUOTE]
What is this "prior PC experience" you speak of?
As a software developer who is familiar with how on-line systems work, I can assure you that once the phone-home system is in place there is no mechanism or "patch" for undoing that.
This is why I'm making such a big deal of this. Once you head down this road there is no turning back. And when those Microsoft servers are turned off one day, those Xbox One games will NOT work. A few people seem to believe that they would somehow become "free" and "unlocked" but they are kidding themselves.
I know there are a lot of people out there who are saying what they want to believe. But I actually know what I'm talking about![/QUOTE]
As I've stated in the past I used to work for Digital River. Digital River provides eCommerce solutions. For example, one of those solutions being DRM tools for unlock codes. One option is called Software Passport. It offers the option to create unlock codes and a call-in system for verification. You can terminate the call in option remotely. Really, it's based on the business model and how you've configured it.
In Microsoft's case it's not all that complicated. Imagine a few simple use cases with the current proposed DRM solution in place.
Use Case 1: Game Check
- Game launches
- Game checks Xbox One and asks can I play?
- Xbox One responds with Answer Yes or No
- Game operates in full mode with a Yes response.
- End Use Case
- Xbox One receives request to validate DRM check.
- Has it been greater than 24 hours since I last checked Server? Yes, phone Server
- Xbox One phones Server
- Server does User Dave have access to Game
- Server responds Yes
- Xbox One saves Yes response for User Dave to Game
- End Use Case
This is a very simple example that doesn't include alternative paths. And it may be naive in thinking MS will unlock your console for whatever games are currently installed or that you have access to do so, but it's most certainly possible.
I'm working at another company right now where we're building a new telematics onboard computer for vehicles. We can update and replace the entire code or pieces of the code over wireless communications. We call it an OTAP (Over The Air Program). The onboard computer contains a cellular modem that allows us to communicate with our fleet for dispatching purposes.
I'm a business analyst and am fully aware of what machines are capable of based on current and prior working experience. The reason you can update code is because it was specifically designed to be updated and replaceable after the fact. If you don't design it in such a fashion, then of course not.
But we did it at Digital River. For the record Microsoft uses Digital River as one of their eCommerce channels (link). You can say whatever you want, but I know it's possible. If they choose to implement it is another story.
So there's no confusion my main focus while at Digital River was subscriptions and global payments. I spent close to 6 years there as both a BA and Product Manager. I know exactly what I'm talking about in regards to DRM and being able to update code.
Lastly, I did a quick search to find an example of a game that's been patched to pull out the DRM after the fact and found Miner Wars 2081 as one example.
Best regards,
Bud
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Irenicus1
- Posts: 421
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
Well ya gotta be an American citizen in order to be the President of the United States. I'm an American citizen so I could be the next President of the United States. Along those lines I guess Microsoft could decide to remove the drm from the Xbox One someday..............with an additional fee of course.
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ActRaiser1
- Posts: 2726
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
[QUOTE=David]Actraiser - Thanks for the insight! For non-techies like myself that was interesting to read. So do you believe that this
http://kotaku.com/the-xbox-one-might-seem-like-a-horror-show-now-but-tha-511951891
specifically refers to what you're talking about where at the end of the product's life (or if there's enough outrage) that they'd implement something like you described? And I wonder how easily this could be hacked to modify the code?[/QUOTE]
I would say they've confirmed the Xbox One can update the code of it down the road. As to whether they'll do it is another story.
As for the hacked 360, anything is possible. It seems like all newer consoles have been hacked and then patched and then hacked and then patched.
http://kotaku.com/the-xbox-one-might-seem-like-a-horror-show-now-but-tha-511951891
specifically refers to what you're talking about where at the end of the product's life (or if there's enough outrage) that they'd implement something like you described? And I wonder how easily this could be hacked to modify the code?[/QUOTE]
I would say they've confirmed the Xbox One can update the code of it down the road. As to whether they'll do it is another story.
As for the hacked 360, anything is possible. It seems like all newer consoles have been hacked and then patched and then hacked and then patched.
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NewModelArmy1
- Posts: 100
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Thoughts: Xbox One & VGC Reaction - Right Call?
[QUOTE=weallmissedme]NewModelArmy, how is something that is in almost 4 million homes in 8 months a failure? Not to mention, it's all about games at E3. And I know denialrage6 is going to reply, so I just want to add Nintendos' good policies back up the console so games CAN boost sales. When Nintendo and Sony show off their games, they'll be a good selling pair. And if Nintendo cuts the price cut for Christmas (like the 3DS) and include Nintendo land in EVERY bundle, they'll sell like mad at Christmas.[/QUOTE]
I think the verdict is still out on the Wii U. In April, it sold 40,000 units in North America. Outsold by every other system except the Vita I believe. So far they have sold 3.45 million units, not 4 million. Nintendo is in trouble with this system. Nintendo Land is not the system seller like Wii Sports is so including that in every system will not necessarily boost sales. I think selling the deluxe system with a Mario game would help but it may be already too late. People are just not interested in this thing. It reminds me of the virtual boy. Christmas will surely see a boost in sales but will it be enough? Who knows? It is the same old story with Nintendo, great first part games (albeit derivative) with no third party support. In addition, I think you will see very few games that are available for the xbox one and PS4 that will be ported over to the Wii U, the gap in the technology will probably prevent that.
I think the verdict is still out on the Wii U. In April, it sold 40,000 units in North America. Outsold by every other system except the Vita I believe. So far they have sold 3.45 million units, not 4 million. Nintendo is in trouble with this system. Nintendo Land is not the system seller like Wii Sports is so including that in every system will not necessarily boost sales. I think selling the deluxe system with a Mario game would help but it may be already too late. People are just not interested in this thing. It reminds me of the virtual boy. Christmas will surely see a boost in sales but will it be enough? Who knows? It is the same old story with Nintendo, great first part games (albeit derivative) with no third party support. In addition, I think you will see very few games that are available for the xbox one and PS4 that will be ported over to the Wii U, the gap in the technology will probably prevent that.
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