Why has there been no crash like in 1983

General and high profile video game topics.
scotland171
Posts: 816
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby scotland171 » January 20th, 2015, 8:37 am

[QUOTE=BanjoPickles] ...just like Nintendo saved gaming by righting many of Atari's wrongs (d-pad replacing the joystick, strict licensing policies, deeper game experiences, etc.). Systems like the Jaguar, 32X, 3DO.....they really didn't pioneer anything. Even the Saturn, great as it was, didn't reinvent the wheel in any way. One thing that killed the industry in 83 was a glut of imitators, and you had a lot of that same mindset in the mid-90's.[/QUOTE]

Joysticks: Did Nintendo right Atari's wrongs with the d-pad?  First off, Nintendo did not invent the d-pad as popularized it.  Look at the LED handheldgames of the 70s and early 80s, and you will see early d-pads galore.   In some genres a good d-pad works well, in others a good arcade joystick.  Its less about d-pad vs joystick then being good.  The joysticks of the Intellivision, colecovision, 5200 and 7800 were all wanting.  Those of the Odyssey 2 and 2600, simple, worked well.  Third parties ran the spectrum.  

Licensing - Yes, Nintendo changed how this worked for consoles, and this, coupled with having ROM cartridges as the only input to reduce copying, helped alot.  It fought against flooding the market, kept out the smut, and made sure Nintendo got money for every game on its system.  Those were all good, and Nintendo won its suit against Atari/Tengen and the 10NES chip.  It also made them exclusives, so you did not have Qbert on 9 different systems again (an issue that is reappearing).  However I think the exclusivity of Nintendo's third party policies were so strict that it led to legal action, and they backed off. 

Deeper Game Experiences - Here I disagree because the deeper game experience was on other platforms.  Yes, Zelda is better than Adventure, but on Family Computers there were far deeper experiences.   To this day, consoles lack keyboards.  They are designed for the best twitch inputs, with multiple shoulder buttons and analog sticks, but not for slow diverse input needed for other experiences.   For deep experience, Nintendo was not the best, not even close.  Had Coleco survived, we might have had more of a hybrid system to compete. 

Pioneers - Being on the frontier is fun, but not always profitable.  The famicom was not cutting edge, but consumer friendly, and the NES just a westernized version.  Nintendo in the 90s seemed to be anything but the pioneer in hardware.   The changed since then, but only when playing from behind.  Maybe that is the moral - industry leaders try not to break what isn't broken, while those playing catchup have more of a go for it attitude.

Jon1
Posts: 378
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby Jon1 » January 20th, 2015, 1:15 pm

I vehemently disagree with the thought that the PS1 saved video games. Within a span of a few years, you went from having all sorts of interesting consoles to just the PS1 and N64. All of the incredibly healthy competition that characterized the 93-95 era went by the wayside and the industry has been a wasteland of unoriginality since. How is that healthy? Twenty years of centralization and monopolization is not what I call "saving" video games. Again, I don't have any statistics, but it seemed like companies were still making a ton of money in 94-95. MK2 and other interesting games (admittedly they were on the SNES or Genesis, which were pathetically underpowered by the mid 90s) were selling in the millions. It'd be interesting to see some stats on that.

ptdebate1
Posts: 909
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby ptdebate1 » January 20th, 2015, 2:28 pm

[QUOTE=Jon]I vehemently disagree with the thought that the PS1 saved video games. Within a span of a few years, you went from having all sorts of interesting consoles to just the PS1 and N64. All of the incredibly healthy competition that characterized the 93-95 era went by the wayside and the industry has been a wasteland of unoriginality since. How is that healthy? Twenty years of centralization and monopolization is not what I call "saving" video games. Again, I don't have any statistics, but it seemed like companies were still making a ton of money in 94-95. MK2 and other interesting games (admittedly they were on the SNES or Genesis, which were pathetically underpowered by the mid 90s) were selling in the millions. It'd be interesting to see some stats on that.[/QUOTE]

The narrative since the rise of the PS1 has been anything but "centralization and monopolization." First, I maintain that during the period 1993-5, there were no worthwhile alternatives to the SNES and Genesis. Although there was competition, that competition bore no fruits: almost everyone here will agree that the Jaguar, 3DO, and Neo Geo home console produced little to nothing of lasting value that wasn't already available elsewhere.

Second, there never ceased to be fierce competition in the game console space. PS1 and PS2 both outsold the competition for home consoles, but what about handhelds? What about the fact that the underdog during the fifth generation--the n64--still sold 128 TIMES more units than the Jaguar? That the underdog Xbox sold twelve times what the 3DO did? I'm not saying that this is due to Sony, I'm just saying that video games were in a far, far worse place during those years you're referring to.




HardcoreSadism1
Posts: 526
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby HardcoreSadism1 » January 20th, 2015, 3:48 pm

[QUOTE=ptdebate]Jon, it's absurd to say that no one cares about the ps1.[/QUOTE]

The trolling is real.

EDIT: Okay for a real defense of the PlayStation One, we had official support up until 2005... That is a testament to its success, bordering 2600's longevity.

ActRaiser1
Posts: 2726
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby ActRaiser1 » January 20th, 2015, 4:53 pm

[QUOTE=ptdebate]
Although there was competition, that competition bore no fruits: almost everyone here will agree that the Jaguar, 3DO, and Neo Geo home console produced little to nothing of lasting value that wasn't already available elsewhere.
[/QUOTE]

Tempest 2000, Aliens vs Predator, and Iron Soldier say hi.

Star Control II, Wing Commander III, Road Rash, and Gex say hi.

Pulstar, Windjammers, and Metal Slug say hi.

I'll throw out Burn Cycle and Voyeur on the CD-i.  I mean c'mon where else do you get to see Robert Culp?  He's freaking awesome.

I kind of got lost in who's fighting for what but wanted to toss out the above as excellent games that weren't readily available on too many other systems outside of the PC.  IMHO the (94-95) age might be considered a lost generation but by God they produced some great games.



gleebergloben1
Posts: 687
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby gleebergloben1 » January 20th, 2015, 5:00 pm

[QUOTE=scotland17]

We had not really discussed the arcades.  I will count myself lucky to have been there for pinball, electromechanicals and the video game arcades, even being the change maker guy in one for awhile. For me, the arcade crash was slow motion over a few years, but real.  

[/QUOTE]

1983 was a fantastic year in the arcades. Some of my personal favorites came out in 1982-1983: Bagman, Dragon's Lair, Donkey Kong Jr., Mappy, Mario Bros., Star Wars, Arabian, Joust, Robotron 2084, Q-Bert, Star Trek, Tron, Discs of Tron, Xevious, Elevator Action, Tapper, Track and Field, etc etc etc.

Back in the early 80's, practically every town had an arcade, every mall had at least one arcade, and every city had arcades on pretty much every block. I delivered newspapers during this time, and the money that I made was converted into quarters wit' a quickness.

Then in 1984, arcade gaming got really quiet, many arcades closed up shop, and the quietness lasted for about 10 years until Street Fighter II and Mortal Combat breathed the final air of life before the arcades practically disappeared.

Now most "arcades" are mostly ticket games like the ones you see at Chucky Cheese, the games where if you win 10,000 tickets you get your choice of either a single Tic-Tac or a mustache comb.

Oltobaz1
Posts: 1605
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby Oltobaz1 » January 20th, 2015, 5:16 pm

As far as alternatives to the Genesis and SNES, the TG 16 is actually a viable
candidate, so long as you have access to the actual Japanese PC Engine games .
The Neo Geo AES is an arcade system in a console shell, it doesn't have as much variety
as the three other systems, what it does though, it does very well. Some of the best looking
2D games ever, fighting games heaven, awesome shmups and absolutely no shovelware.
While some games are certainly better than others, I can't think of a single dud.

ptdebate1
Posts: 909
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby ptdebate1 » January 20th, 2015, 5:49 pm

[QUOTE=ActRaiser][QUOTE=ptdebate]
Although there was competition, that competition bore no fruits: almost everyone here will agree that the Jaguar, 3DO, and Neo Geo home console produced little to nothing of lasting value that wasn't already available elsewhere.
[/QUOTE]

Tempest 2000, Aliens vs Predator, and Iron Soldier say hi.

Star Control II, Wing Commander III, Road Rash, and Gex say hi.

Pulstar, Windjammers, and Metal Slug say hi.

I'll throw out Burn Cycle and Voyeur on the CD-i.  I mean c'mon where else do you get to see Robert Culp?  He's freaking awesome.

I kind of got lost in who's fighting for what but wanted to toss out the above as excellent games that weren't readily available on too many other systems outside of the PC.  IMHO the (94-95) age might be considered a lost generation but by God they produced some great games.


[/QUOTE]

Those are all good games, to be sure, but only the Jaguar titles you mentioned were console exclusives. My point was that there was very little that came out of those consoles that made them essential or influential libraries. 

scotland171
Posts: 816
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby scotland171 » January 20th, 2015, 8:01 pm

[QUOTE=gleebergloben]

1983 was a fantastic year in the arcades. Some of my personal favorites came out in 1982-1983: Bagman, Dragon's Lair, Donkey Kong Jr., Mappy, Mario Bros., Star Wars, Arabian, Joust, Robotron 2084, Q-Bert, Star Trek, Tron, Discs of Tron, Xevious, Elevator Action, Tapper, Track and Field, etc etc etc.

Back in the early 80's, practically every town had an arcade, every mall had at least one arcade, and every city had arcades on pretty much every block...then in 1984, arcade gaming got really quiet, many arcades closed up shop, and the quietness lasted for about 10 years until Street Fighter II and Mortal Combat breathed the final air of life before the arcades practically disappeared.

[/QUOTE]

That was pretty much my experience too.

The early 80s were just like fast forward evolution of great arcade games.  Look at great games like Galaga and Wizard of Wor in 1981 - fun, but very simple in graphics and gameplay.  Now look at that list of games from 1984 and compare.  Wow. Just astonishing.    Every trip to the arcade might find a new game out front to tempt you in.

All this growth and variety meant that small business owners could never keep up with the next big thing, and the next big thing brought in the quarters.  Sure, a classic Pac-Man was paid off and still made you money, but new machines were a gamble that you had to take to bring in the kids. That, plus too many small businesses offering the same experience really did it.  Maybe the societal pressures saying kids only places like arcades and roller rinks were bad hurt too, or the feeling it was just a big laser tag fad. 

Beyond 1984, I remember 1985 still being a good year with games like Gauntlet, Hang On, Space Harrier, and Road Blaster, which are respectable but compared to the 1984 list, shocking.  By 1986, the arcades were getting harder to find, and units hung around in the arcades much longer. Sega was still in the game I think, but it was also basically a way to get exclusive games for their console.

At least that was my experience in the state I grew up in the US.   How was yours?

ptdebate1
Posts: 909
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Why has there been no crash like in 1983

Postby ptdebate1 » January 21st, 2015, 8:38 am

I wasn't alive in the 80s [frown]


Return to “Video Games General”