Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

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Stalvern
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Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby Stalvern » March 18th, 2017, 1:04 am

Well, here it is, the next Sonic game.

I do find this footage something of a letdown; with the way that "Project Sonic 2017" was hyped up to be some great turning point for the series, I expected more than the same linear gameplay that these games have been doing off and on with minor variations since The Secret Rings (and which is more or less a copy of Crash Bandicoot anyway). Besides, while Colors and Generations did an excellent job with this type of design, it's so specific and limited that it's never felt to me like the ideal model for 3D Sonic - Sonic Adventure was hardly a perfect game, but at its best, its combination of speed and freedom really captured something that these new ones have never lived up to. I'm sure that Sonic Forces will at least be competent, but it takes more than competence to re-establish a brand the way that Sega seems to think this will. (It also takes more than the boring level design in the video to get me excited for any upcoming game, but since it's only 41 seconds, I should probably give Sonic Forces the benefit of the doubt.)

CharlieR
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby CharlieR » March 23rd, 2017, 9:25 am

Thanks for posting.

It just seems to me that almost every new Sonic game is expected to be a turning point for the series and in my opinion, they all seem to look the same. Run ahead, jump, boost through the rings in mid-air, press a button to grab the zipline to launch forward, use your homing attack. It all seems like it's been done before.

Sut
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby Sut » March 27th, 2017, 2:30 am

It's strange everyone seems to be looking forward to SonicMania because it just does what the 16-bit games did well. But conversely everyone seems down on Forces because it's doing what Colors and Generations did well ?

Still feel expectation levels are unfair for Sonic games. The mainstream multi-format Sonic games have all been pretty good since Sonic '06.
Unleashed daytime sections were good, but bogged down by the tame (but not awful) werehog sections.
Colors was great fun and Generations was really good (don't think I'm missing any).
Not sure we need this 'turning point' everyone refers to.

It's almost like it's cool not to like Sonic so it needs constantly bashing. Everyone wanted a Sonic game as good as Colors and Generations that's the route Sega are going down and the punters still ain't happy.

However, I think the key ingredient missing from the HD Sonic games era is exploration. The 16-bit games were fast but you also had the option of taking you time and discovering alternate routes. That's something these games haven't captured yet for as much as the speed sections are good fun they have yet to capture this multi-layered approach.

Robotrek
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby Robotrek » March 27th, 2017, 1:45 pm

Sut wrote:It's strange everyone seems to be looking forward to SonicMania because it just does what the 16-bit games did well. But conversely everyone seems down on Forces because it's doing what Colors and Generations did well ?

Still feel expectation levels are unfair for Sonic games. The mainstream multi-format Sonic games have all been pretty good since Sonic '06.
Unleashed daytime sections were good, but bogged down by the tame (but not awful) werehog sections.
Colors was great fun and Generations was really good (don't think I'm missing any).
Not sure we need this 'turning point' everyone refers to.

It's almost like it's cool not to like Sonic so it needs constantly bashing. Everyone wanted a Sonic game as good as Colors and Generations that's the route Sega are going down and the punters still ain't happy.

However, I think the key ingredient missing from the HD Sonic games era is exploration. The 16-bit games were fast but you also had the option of taking you time and discovering alternate routes. That's something these games haven't captured yet for as much as the speed sections are good fun they have yet to capture this multi-layered approach.


That is NOT what anybody was asking for at all. We wanted Colors and Generations with some more meat. The formula is getting freakin' BORING. Run forward, boost a thousand times, smash through assloads of enemies, rinse, wash, repeat. Do this for about 2-3 hours, and boom, you've completed the game. At least Unleashed had the werehog, which broke the monotony a bit. The 16-bit games were fast, but not "blow-through-the-whole-level-doing-next-to-nothing" fast. You still had to snoop around a bit to find special stages and such. And while that is kind of in generations, it's easy to miss, considering how freakin' fast you fly by everything. Game might as well be one huge quick time event. That's why when I play generations I stick to classic sonic. HIS gameplay is actually fun. And it might be the saving grace of Sonic forces, MAYBE.

I'm glad you brought up that the 3D sections are missing the exploration element. I'd look to Sonic Adventure 1&2 to see how this formula works.

Harsh, but it's my two-cents.

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Retrology
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby Retrology » March 27th, 2017, 2:55 pm

I hope I'm wrong, but this looks extremely boring. Just looks like you're pressing the control stick forward and bulldozing through enemies. Weeeeee.

This is the kind of stereotype that Sonic Adventure has gotten. Having played that game the other day, I don't find that true at all. What made Sonic Adventure work was that it was literally 2D Sonic from a 3D perspective, like what Mario 3D Land and 3D World did to the 2D Marios. The areas were linear enough that you could whiz through most of a level if in the "zone", but like the Genesis Sonics, contained loads of hidden items and secrets you'd find if you took a more cautious approach. It encouraged exploration and speed much like the 2D Sonics, which is why it's such a great game.

The problem with select modern Sonic titles is they are a stereotype of what people think Sonic is about. Without the exploratory elements, the sense of speed (or "blast processing") is only a novelty. It's when the two elements are combined that Sonic The Hedgehog is truly Sonic The Hedgehog. Adventure is blamed for introducing the homing attack, but it was introduced in a way that it didn't hinder or water down the gameplay. It was enjoyable to use that attack. In modern Sonics, it seems like homing is the only thing you do aside from running. The levels are way too linear and straightforward.

I've only seen this video, so my sample size is limited, but this is not the Sonic I know. I'm all for game changing material, but it needs to be done right[b][/b], something Mario and Zelda titles have managed to do when switching to 3D. Other than Sonic Adventure, the sequel, and Colors, I haven't really seen an example of this in a 3D Sonic.

I don't mean to offend anyone who disagrees, this is just my two cents.

Sut
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby Sut » March 27th, 2017, 3:29 pm

I love the modern Sonics for the adrenaline rush speed.
But I do agree it's shallow and wears thin quickly the series definitely needs to add its exploration back to hit the heights of the 2D games.

Will have to go and play Sonic Adventure 1&2 properly the first cutscenes put me off initially.

eneuman96
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby eneuman96 » March 27th, 2017, 3:45 pm

It's interesting how Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are considered the benchmark for 3D Sonic games even though we all acknowledge that they're fairly flawed themselves. But yeah, I appreciate that they had more gameplay variety than just "go super fast and occasionally hit something with a homing attack." The reason we're more excited for Sonic Mania is because it follows the spirit of the Genesis games, which had quality level design that encouraged the players to do more than just mindlessly blaze through them.

Honestly, as far as the 3D games are concerned, I miss the Chao Gardens more than anything. Why didn't Sega think to include an updated version of them in any of the recent games? Oh, and you just know a Chao Garden app for smartphones would make Sega a ton of money if they did it right.

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Stalvern
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby Stalvern » March 27th, 2017, 6:22 pm

Sut wrote:Still feel expectation levels are unfair for Sonic games. The mainstream multi-format Sonic games have all been pretty good since Sonic '06.
Unleashed daytime sections were good, but bogged down by the tame (but not awful) werehog sections.
Colors was great fun and Generations was really good (don't think I'm missing any).

You're missing the ugly Super Mario Galaxy-wannabe mess that was Lost World.

Sut wrote:Not sure we need this 'turning point' everyone refers to.

It's almost like it's cool not to like Sonic so it needs constantly bashing. Everyone wanted a Sonic game as good as Colors and Generations that's the route Sega are going down and the punters still ain't happy.

Colors was a hit because it was the first one in ages without any obvious serious issues. Generations specifically made a point of being shallow throwback fun. Neither of those qualities are especially strong foundations for a series, and both of those games are several years old at this point - you'd expect Sega to move on to something new even if they hadn't made a huge noise about it, which they have. It's a completely reasonable expectation.

Sut wrote:However, I think the key ingredient missing from the HD Sonic games era is exploration. The 16-bit games were fast but you also had the option of taking you time and discovering alternate routes. That's something these games haven't captured yet for as much as the speed sections are good fun they have yet to capture this multi-layered approach.

So you understood the problem even as you were slinging mud at the people who pointed it out?

Sut
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Re: Sonic Forces gameplay revealed

Postby Sut » March 28th, 2017, 8:59 am

Stalvern wrote:So you understood the problem even as you were slinging mud at the people who pointed it out?


I wouldn't say offering a counterpoint and a different opinion is slinging mud. It's more for debate and discussion, you know what forums are for (usually).

Anyhow I'm open minded. I enjoyed Generations and if this is more of the same then it will be a decent game. It sure won't hit the heights of the 2D games but it also doesn't mean it will be trash. But yes I do understand others opinions on the topic and they are fair points. No 'slinging mud' intended.


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