Xbox One backwards compatiility

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Shapur
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Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby Shapur » November 15th, 2015, 5:45 pm

Anyone tried it yet? How did it work?

It seems like a really cool feature and win for Microsoft but from what I've read so far a lot of the games don't perform as well as they did on the 360. Reminds me of the 360's emulation of the Xbox which was a big feature but I personally thought it sucked because the games never ran as well as they did originally(e.g. Halo 2 4 player split screen unplayable)
I hope I'm wrong and they can keep the framerates up, or even better add original Xbox compatibility.

Steve
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby Steve » November 15th, 2015, 9:41 pm

I've tried this. I figured it was a good opportunity to try something from my backlog, which is Gears of War 3. I've only tried the campaign so far and only completed the first act but it seems to work just fine. Plus, I don't know if people would count Rare Replay as part of the backwards compatibility but I've played quite a bit of that and likewise, didn't experience any problems.

Wallyworld
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby Wallyworld » November 20th, 2015, 5:12 am

I loved the backwards compatibility from original xbox to 360. Some were a buggy mess but most looked amazing being able to play via hdmi. Kind of how gamecube games looked great on Wii with RGB.

Don't see the benefit though of HDMI to HDMI compatibility. What will I gain? Buggy gameplay is all I can think of due to emulation.

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MoarRipter
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby MoarRipter » November 20th, 2015, 10:34 am

The only true benefit of playing Xbox 360 games on the Xbox One is to gain access to the One's social features such as being able to take a screenshot, record gameplay, and upload it for others to see. That alone is pretty awesome in my opinion as the 360 has one of the richest libraries ever and I hope the BC takes off with a far and wide catalog of compatible games because too many times I've encountered a great moment in a 360 game and been like "wish I could've recorded that" or taken a screenshot without resorting to a crappy smartphone camera snapshot of my TV. I have a large backlog of 360 games I'm looking forward to playing on the Xbox One. I hope Microsoft will also allow users to use the wired 360 controller for 360 games on the Xbox One. Maybe they do? I haven't tested it yet.

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Atariboy
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby Atariboy » November 21st, 2015, 5:02 pm

Shapur wrote:It seems like a really cool feature and win for Microsoft but from what I've read so far a lot of the games don't perform as well as they did on the 360. Reminds me of the 360's emulation of the Xbox which was a big feature but I personally thought it sucked because the games never ran as well as they did originally(e.g. Halo 2 4 player split screen unplayable)


This is very much different from the situation on the 360.

Original Xbox compatibility on the Xbox 360 was a full software emulation solution with game specific profiles that instructed what components of the emulator to utilize for each title, due to the constraints of the 360 that prevented the emulator from running fully enabled at full speed on the 360.

It rarely worked out very well since the power to do it justice just wasn't there. As a result, perhaps 10% of the library was actually truly compatible. 50% of the Xbox library was on the BC list, but only ~20% or so of what was compatible was able to run without significant issues. Nice when it worked right, but very limited.

Shapur wrote:I hope I'm wrong and they can keep the framerates up, or even better add original Xbox compatibility.


Xbox One backwards compatibility though from reports is a hybrid solution with only partial emulation going on. GPU tasks seem to be emulated while the instructions for the triple-core PowerPC processor is reportedly ran through some advanced translator that Microsoft has created that automatically converts it to X86 based code that runs natively on the XB1's CPU. That recompiling is why you must download even your disc based games here, with your original disc only serving as a DRM check to prove ownership.

And it also seems to be why despite the massive challenges, it actually works extremely well.

Shapur wrote:Anyone tried it yet? How did it work?


There are very few performance issues this time around.

Gears of War 3 is by far the most mentioned title for poor performance, and look at this very thread where a member here found it very much playable and enjoyable. That speaks volumes about the job that Microsoft has done here. And most of the few issues for preview members experienced were also squashed when this went public.

XBLA Perfect Dark is allowed once again to render in full 1080p just like it did on the 360, unlike the 720p upscaling to 1080p that was going on for preview members and during the opening weeks of Rare Replay's availability. The hub area in Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts suffered from major frame rate issues for another frequently cited issue for preview members, but now provides a fluid experience just like on a real 360.

And the elimination of screen-tearing in titles that utilized that performance compromise on the 360, which is a significant upgrade in some cases, was known to create major frame rate dips in titles like Mass Effect for preview members. Yet now with this public release, the frame rate remains stable during moments where screen-tearing would've originally occurred.

MoarRipter wrote:The only true benefit of playing Xbox 360 games on the Xbox One is to gain access to the One's social features such as being able to take a screenshot, record gameplay, and upload it for others to see.


There are also other benefits. Eurogamer for instance was impressed with lack of stuttering in Fallout 3 on the XB1 compared to the same game running natively on the 360.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... t-showcase

One thing I've personally noticed in my relatively short time with this feature is the elimination of screen tearing, which is a significant enhancement in my book for scores of earlier 360 releases. It annoyed me more than once through the years, so it's nice to see it completely eradicated here.

Going back to something like the original Mass Effect and not having that annoyance would be like the Atari 7800 eliminating flicker in Atari 2600 games. It's an impressive and entirely unexpected bonus that actually provides a beneficial upgrade, even though it will slip under most people's radar.

Wallyworld wrote:Don't see the benefit though of HDMI to HDMI compatibility. What will I gain? Buggy gameplay is all I can think of due to emulation.


What's HDMI to HDMI compatibility?

As for this, besides a possible preference for the XB1 controller, some performance benefits in certain circumstances, and the previously cited XB1 social features, it's all about convenience. Even with your old Xbox 360 connected to the same television as your new XB1, it's going to be nice I think to have the option to jump to a favorite XBLA classic in-between Xbox One games.

And it's going to be nice someday to have much of your 360 DLC tied to another console for that added protection when the demise of Xbox Live comes someday and you've lost the option to ever redownload your DLC to another system. The more hardware with your games tied to it when that day comes, the better.

Shapur wrote:Xbox One backwards compatiility


As a side note, Microsoft has expressed interest in bringing 360 emulation to Windows 10 (You can already stream games from your XB1 to PC, but this would be even better) and has also mentioned original Xbox compatibility for the XB1.

And the Xbox One isn't the only system experiencing advancements in this area. In the last couple of days, Sony has quietly rolled out their long rumored PS2 emulator for the PS4 (Which in this case provides a major visual boost thanks to rendering PS2 software in HD). The scale and scope of the feature remains to be seen since it's currently limited to a handful of bundled Star Wars classics for a system bundle packaged with Battlefront, but more details and a possible launch of their PS2 Classics program are expected at the PSX conference early next month.

Not holding my breath, but I'm crossing my fingers that their emulator includes disc compatibility.
Last edited by Atariboy on November 21st, 2015, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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scotland
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby scotland » November 21st, 2015, 5:35 pm

Atariboy wrote:Xbox One backwards compatibility though from reports is a hybrid solution


First, I want to say I enjoyed your post. Thanks.

Second, the XboxOne backwards compatibility being a hybrid. GPU tasks are being software emulated, but the CPU is being compiled into equivalent instructions for the new CPU. Isn't this a port? Its translating code from one operating environment to run in another. Now porting usually means work and testing and fine tuning -- this is an auto-port process.

This is a question. I am not asserting its a port, its just the best word I think I have for this process instead of emulation.

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Atariboy
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby Atariboy » November 21st, 2015, 5:49 pm

I would definitely say that it's a partial port, since that's exactly what's going on with CPU tasks. That code has been converted from PowerPC 360 code to X86 based XB1 instructions that the system is capable of directly running. To me at least, that's the very definition of porting.

But since the GPU is emulated and those components of 360 code are apparently unchanged here, I rather like the hybrid term to describe what's going on here overall.

Eurogamer talks about this a bit here.

https://youtu.be/lQ_DxnCnHAg?t=2m17s

Atariboy wrote:And the Xbox One isn't the only system experiencing advancements in this area. In the last couple of days, Sony has quietly rolled out their long rumored PS2 emulator for the PS4 (Which in this case provides a major visual boost thanks to rendering PS2 software in HD). The scale and scope of the feature remains to be seen since it's currently limited to a handful of bundled Star Wars classics for a system bundle packaged with Battlefront, but more details and a possible launch of their PS2 Classics program are expected at the PSX conference early next month.


I don't want to derail this thread, but since one could interpret this as a possible counter by Sony to all of this, a bit of a mention isn't out of line. So if anyone is intrigued about Sony's recent attempt at PS2 BC, Eurogamer also has had some decent coverage of this if anyone wants a few more details. Hopefully more is revealed at PSX in early December.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... -emulation

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... e-analysis

If this catches anyone's fancy, perhaps a dedicated thread is justified when more details surface. The possibilities are tantalizing but we don't yet know how limited this is all going to be.

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Shapur
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby Shapur » November 21st, 2015, 7:45 pm

Very interesting, and I hope MS can get the majority of the library on the list because it would definitely help me justify purchasing the Xbox One as I gave my 360 to my brother but still have my games.

Sony adding PS2 capability would be extremely cool, the more games a system can play the better but somehow I see Sony using that for downloadable games and not discs. Just my gut feeling, and I feel certain we'll never see PS3 compatibility.

Now if we could get PS1 to PS4 compatibility that would be sweet and should be pretty darn easy, as with Xbox to Xbox One but I personally doubt they care about games that old. They probably just hope we'll rebuy classic we want to play.

Wallyworld
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby Wallyworld » November 22nd, 2015, 1:58 am

All I want for Christmas is to play my PS2 games on my PS4 and my original Xbox games on my Xbone. Is this asking for to much?

Please Santa?

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MoarRipter
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Re: Xbox One backwards compatiility

Postby MoarRipter » November 22nd, 2015, 10:58 am

Wallyworld wrote:All I want for Christmas is to play my PS2 games on my PS4 and my original Xbox games on my Xbone. Is this asking for to much?

Please Santa?


I'm with you on the Xbox games. My original Xbox is broken (turns on as soon as I plug in the power cord and the power/eject buttons don't always work) and some of my games don't play on the 360 (Rallisport Challenge 2, Spy Hunter) I'd rather just play those on the Xbone. I hope that level of backward compatibility comes.


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