2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

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2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby VideoGameCritic » November 29th, 2009, 2:33 pm

I was anxious to get these reviews posted before the holidays.  Please leave comments - I'd like to hear your thoughts.

MigAlley

2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby MigAlley » November 29th, 2009, 3:22 pm

I couldn't disagree with you more on the Super Mario Wii review. I am up to level 8 and while the game is fun it is by no means "A" material. First of all is the control which is lousy. The Wiimote turned sideways is a poor substitute for a classic NES controller.

Then there is the level design which is a major step down from the DS version. I think most of them are just plain boring!

I personally think you get all "giddy" when there is a 2d game and automatically rate it an A! Just because it is a Mario 2d game doesn't make it an A.

Bad controls, uneven level design and difficulty equal a B+ game at best.

David

2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby David » November 29th, 2009, 3:51 pm

[QUOTE=MigAlley]I couldn't disagree with you more on the Super Mario Wii review. I am up to level 8 and while the game is fun it is by no means "A" material. First of all is the control which is lousy. The Wiimote turned sideways is a poor substitute for a classic NES controller.

Then there is the level design which is a major step down from the DS version. I think most of them are just plain boring!

I personally think you get all "giddy" when there is a 2d game and automatically rate it an A! Just because it is a Mario 2d game doesn't make it an A.

Bad controls, uneven level design and difficulty equal a B+ game at best.
[/QUOTE]

You couldn't disagree with him more, so instead of an A you knock it all the way down to a B+?!  Wow, you really differed in opinion.  Also, you think a game that has boring levels and bad controls deserves a B+?  What do you think was good about the game if you didn't like the controls or game design?


Greisha1
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2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby Greisha1 » November 29th, 2009, 5:35 pm

[QUOTE=David]

[QUOTE=MigAlley]I couldn't disagree with you more on the Super Mario Wii review. I am up to level 8 and while the game is fun it is by no means "A" material. First of all is the control which is lousy. The Wiimote turned sideways is a poor substitute for a classic NES controller.

Then there is the level design which is a major step down from the DS version. I think most of them are just plain boring!

I personally think you get all "giddy" when there is a 2d game and automatically rate it an A! Just because it is a Mario 2d game doesn't make it an A.

Bad controls, uneven level design and difficulty equal a B+ game at best.
[/QUOTE]

You couldn't disagree with him more, so instead of an A you knock it all the way down to a B+?!  Wow, you really differed in opinion.  Also, you think a game that has boring levels and bad controls deserves a B+?  What do you think was good about the game if you didn't like the controls or game design?

[/QUOTE]

I think there's something to be said about "grade inflating" a long-term franchise like Super Mario Bros. Nostalgia can lend a rose-tinted framing to a game, and I think I would also have trouble rating NSMBWii subjectively. (Not that I could anyway -- I just played NSMB-DS for the first time this weekend.) Giving NSMBWii a B or less would be like disrespecting the Holy Grail or something like that.

If VGC genuinely thinks it's an "A" title based on single-player gameplay, more power to him. It certainly looks awesome.

I'd be interested to see a separate rating for multiplayer; it doesn't sound like it functions as well as one would like. I'm also interested to hear how others think it compares challenge/level design wise to the old NES/SNES titles.

Zenzerotron

2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby Zenzerotron » November 29th, 2009, 5:35 pm

I was going to say this in my "general discussion" NSMBWii topic, but I'll say it here, as the VGC has unexpectedly reviewed the game already.......

I beat the game a few days ago, and I'm really left with an empty feeling. The game is really "seen that before, done that before". If you've played SMB3, SMW, and NSMB DS, you've seen 99% of this game already. I kept going through this game expecting to discover some wild secrets, gameplay innovation, and great depth...it just never happened. I bought a Prime guide book for the game, thinking there were crazy secrets that I missed....nope.

Let's recall that in SMB3 and Super Mario World, those games were very complex, had depth, and had tons of crazy secrets and it really paid to experiment with replaying levels over and over. No such luck with NSMB Wii.

What's the point of Yoshi?? He's in maybe 4 levels in the entire game. In SMW, Yoshi would alter how a level would be played, you could access hidden routes/stuff you couldn't without him. The deepest thing you can do with Yoshi in this game is eat 8 apples to get a 1-up..zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This is a B-grade game. Nothing new, nothing innovative, nothing draw-dropping.......in other words....NO MARIO MAGIC.

Super Mario Galaxy had the MARIO MAGIC because it had innovation and creativity and originality up the ying-yang.

I'm eagerly awaiting Super Mario Galaxy 2, and New Super Mario Bros Wii is gonna start collecting dust forever on my shelf pretty quickly...I'll stick with SMB3 and SMW when I want a 2D Mario game, thank you very much.


steer

2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby steer » November 29th, 2009, 6:35 pm

Nice reviews, surprised you reviewed Mario so quickly!

I had to laugh at Davids comment on Migs comment - took the word right out of my mouth! Is 'B+' the lowest a Mario can grade or what then?

I think this game has enough innovation and magic to justiy an 'A'. I mean, freezing a penguin and using him as a surfboard to get an otherwise ungettable coin? Mario is run and jump - you cannot reinvent the wheel, and they are not just recycling old ideas here. Plenty new is introduced and built off of, from lighting to fake walls to stage mechanics. Another good example is that (level 7?) Castle where you control both the platform and the platformer (Mario) at the same time.

The early levels are a touch blah, but that is the learning curve...

I am still enjoying completing it - especially the secret levels.



Is the profanity really out of hand on Dead Space? That can be so annoying....

BanjoPickles1
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2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby BanjoPickles1 » November 29th, 2009, 7:11 pm

I have to disagree with you guys. I thought the game was great! Maybe it wasn't up to the level of Mario 3 or World, but in 2009 what possibly could? I thought the game was great at showing me A). what Mario could be like multiplayer(something I've wanted for twenty-plus years) and B). that a 2D Mario could still cut it on a console. Is it groundbreaking? Absolutely not but I don't think it was designed to be.

I would give it an A or an A- myself.

God, I can't wait till Christmas so I can finally play Dead Space Extraction for myself!

steer

2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby steer » November 29th, 2009, 8:14 pm

Also this thread should maybe have a new tangent :

Do we tend to 'canonize' the old Marios??

Mario World was released RIGHT after Mario 3 to give the SNES 'its game'. Miyamoto did not want to make it - he had a been there/done that attitude on it, but obviously Nintendo demanded it...

What does it add?

Alternative exits - that's cool.

Midway points - makes the game easier, game has longer levels than Mario 3, used as a powerup

The cape - neuters game difficulty, gives players a chance to fly through levels they cannot beat.

The Yoshi - gives player unlimited hits if you can keep getting on him. Neuters difficulty, useful as an extra jump when you ditch him midair

Spin jump to bust certain blocks - that's fine...

Much less ambitious/creative powerups compared to Mario 3

Easiest final boss battle in Mario history

Easiest overall Mario game

10 million 1-ups (NSMBWii only has 9 million)

But my point is - if we judge SMW to the same standards as NSMBWii TODAY as far as 'breaking new ground' for the series when it was released - it does much less of it. It is a retread. A great game with great control and stage design, and fun secrets - same as NSMBwii - but with far less stage tweeks and wrinkles.



Greisha1
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2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby Greisha1 » November 29th, 2009, 8:40 pm

[QUOTE=steer]
Do we tend to 'canonize' the old Marios??

[/QUOTE]

I would say so, along with Sonic 1-3, early Castlevanias, etc.

ALTHOUGH Mario 1 did a lot to expand what could be done with platform games; before SMB platformers were confined to one-screen levels. SMB 2 and 3 were more in line with the NES competition at the time, although with more ganache. Could anyone else pull something like SMB3 (design/fun wise) during the NES lifespan? Capcom, perhaps?



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2009/11/29: Wii: Dead Space: Extraction, New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Postby VideoGameCritic » November 30th, 2009, 12:06 am

Mig: If you really "couldn't disagree with me more", then you'd have to give New Super Mario Bros. Wii an F, wouldn't you?

There's always a certain amount of backlash when anything is hailed as being great.  But the bottom line is this: the game is just plain fun.  You can dissect its innovation, graphics, controls, etc.  But at the end of the day you cannot deny it's one of the most fun - if not THE most fun - game you can play on the Wii.  That's the main reason I give this game an A.  I play it every day and I love it.

The multiplayer is a bit clumsy, but I really couldn't find any other flaws.








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