Jaguar vs. SNES (2d capabilities)

[Jon1]

I'm very troubled by the assertions made by some in these forums that I make no point, and that my arguments are ridiculous. I'm simply pointing out that the Jaguar had the potential to be a 2d powerhouse, far more powerful than even the Neo Geo. I disproved Bluestorm's argument, for instance, but people still think I'm factually inaccurate. And, sure, as everyone mentions, software is more important than hardware. But, you have to throw that out the window because we're not talking about a minor difference in 2d capabilities, like the Master System had over the NES. We're talking a quantum leap. The Jag is so much more powerful than the SNES you might as well be comparing the 32x to the PS4. By 1994, the Jag was capable putting out 2d games that rivaled even the Dreamcast's. So, it's unfortunate that undeserving consoles putting out games like Donkey Kong Country (lol) dominated the console landscape until 1997. By 1995 the Saturn's 2d shooters were already making the SNES look archaic, unfortunately they were mostly Japan only releases. 

[Oltobaz1]

[QUOTE=Jon]I'm very troubled by the assertions made by some in these forums that I make no point, and that my arguments are ridiculous. I'm simply pointing out that the Jaguar had the potential to be a 2d powerhouse, far more powerful than even the Neo Geo. I disproved Bluestorm's argument, for instance, but people still think I'm factually inaccurate. And, sure, as everyone mentions, software is more important than hardware. But, you have to throw that out the window because we're not talking about a minor difference in 2d capabilities, like the Master System had over the NES. We're talking a quantum leap. The Jag is so much more powerful than the SNES you might as well be comparing the 32x to the PS4. By 1994, the Jag was capable putting out 2d games that rivaled even the Dreamcast's. So, it's unfortunate that undeserving consoles putting out games like Donkey Kong Country (lol) dominated the console landscape until 1997. By 1995 the Saturn's 2d shooters were already making the SNES look archaic, unfortunately they were mostly Japan only releases. [/QUOTE]

The Jaguar had potential, yet this potential was never really brought to fruition, save for a few games. Its 2D library is meager at best. And, aesthetically speaking, most titles don't even look that nice. I'll take any SNES vs fighting game over Kasumi Ninja for instance.. Aesthetics transcend technology. Beyond their poor gameplay, most Jag 2D titles don't even look that nice. On the other end of the spectrum, the 16Bit consoles and some of the best Japanese games ever made in every genre, in visuals, animation, and yes, gameplay.
It's funny how games like Revenge of the Shinobi, Sonic the Hedgehog, heck, Alex Kidd in Miracle World (whoa!8Bit game!), funny how these games are made available on modern digital platforms today. It's amazing, we got Megaman 9, Megaman 10, new NES like games! I haven't seen any Jaguar remake and/or ports of late.
It's a niche console. I kinda like it actually, Tempest, Alien Vs Predator, and, yes, Rayman. But it's a niche console. Versus the SNES. Seriously. 

[pacguy191]

[QUOTE=Jon]The Jag is so much more powerful than the SNES you might as well be comparing the 32x to the PS4. By 1994, the Jag was capable putting out 2d games that rivaled even the Dreamcast's.[/QUOTE]
What games? The ones you made up in your head?

[Jon1]

Most Jag 2d titles don't look that nice because the programmers only used 1 processor, when programmers like Jeff Minter took full advantage of everything the system had to offer, hence, Tempest 2000. Super Burnout is another excellent example of the system in the right hands. The sense of speed is amazing in that game (I hate to think that I might be arguing with people who haven't played these games). And even that game didn't come close to showing off its potential. Check out the Native demo, which turned into a Dreamcast game.

[bronZfonZ1]

Donkey Kong Country.  Good night, Jaguar.

Obviously, the Jaguar would've had no problem run DKC after some very diligent tweaking of tools, but with Donkey Kong Country, Rare and Nintendo revolutionized game development in the second half of the 90s and early 2000s by changing how art was produced.  It was DKC that pioneered the usage of 3D-modeled, pre-rendered scenes that were prevalent in the Final Fantasy and Resident Evil series.

No one here will debate which system had better 2D capabilities, but in terms of perceived value or bang-for-the-buck, Nintendo and various other third-party developers did "more with less" with the SNES that Atari or anyone else ever did with the Atari Jaguar.  If the computer architecture of the Jaguar were more programmer-friendly, then it would've had a chance, but no one outside of Atari was going to take the time to figure out a system that had such a small user base.

[Jon1]

I never said the Jag had better 2d games than the SNES, although T2k and Super Burnout are significantly more advanced than anything that console ever put out, especially the former. I'm saying that the technology was there in the early 90s to put out 2d games on home consoles that were LIGHT YEARS ahead of the SNES, so far more advanced, that those systems should have been rendered useless by 1994-1995. It should be clear that's what I meant. Pacguy, I'd say Tempest 2000 was a pretty impressive 2d game. But I've come to the assumption that you never played that game. I also believe you never looked up the Jag's Technological Specifications either. 

[HardcoreSadism1]

We really do not need to go the direction of comparing Jaguar to any other console than the SNES.

Protector SE is a fantastic looking homebrew, with beautiful visuals. I need to get this...

The SNES is known to appear more vivid, but that's how off the rails the Jaguar is.

[pacguy191]

[QUOTE=Jon]Pacguy, I'd say Tempest 2000 was a pretty impressive 2d game. But I've come to the assumption that you never played that game. I also believe you never looked up the Jag's Technological Specifications either. [/QUOTE]
Tempest isn't a very good tech demo to begin with. It's not in 2D, its actually rendered in polys with sprites added in. It's a great game but it's not impressive in the slightest. It could easily be done on any other game console at the time (in fact, it was - I have the PS1 version and it looks just as great).

Also, "technological specifications" is not a proper noun. Call them specs, you look less pretentious.

[Jon1]

All of this talk about the Jag being incredibly hard to program for, that's for 3d games. For 2d games, all they needed was money to pay a team of experienced programmers and they could have been put out games comparable in 2d capabilities to the Dreamcast as early as 1993. Protector SE was a homebrew title and didn't have the same amount of resources given to it as a game like T2K. So far, everyone who is disagreeing with me has been proven wrong by the facts.

[TheLastNightmare1]

The Jaguar had more colors, and larger sprites, plus sprite scaling...at a higher resolution. Even with the Super FX 2 chip, the SNES couldn't compete with the colors and higher resolution.

But the Jaguar competing with a Dreamcast? Not even close. It had a crippling flaw - programmers had to squeeze their code through the 16 bit Motorola 68000 chip (as seen in the Genesis, Sega CD, and Neo-Geo), transforming the system from a taste of the future, to a slight cosmetic enhancement of the past. There's no way you could run Street Fighter III on a Jaguar, according to the Jaguar coders at Atari Age.

Combine that with Atari's "You're on your own!" approach to 3rd party support, and it's no wonder that the Jaguar's 2D library can't even begin to compare with the 2D libraries of the famously 2d shy PSone and N64. There's Rayman, Tempest 2000, and Protector...and then things go downhill, fast. Super Burnout wouldn't grab attention on any other system - it's basically just Hang-On, which itself was basically just Pole Position. Ride a big sprite, and then using physics from an Atari 2600, dodge other big sprites. 

For most of us, it's not a patch on Road Rash.   
 
By the end of the SNES's life cycle, the Jaguar was ultimately just a slightly faster, slightly less pixelated SNES/Sega CD with more crayons...and a library of broken promises.