Saturn Virtua Fighter?

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Sonicx9
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby Sonicx9 » May 1st, 2019, 9:54 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:I'm using this as an excuse to order some Saturn games, namely the original Virtua Fighter (Japan) and Virtua Fighter Remix. It'll also give me better perspective on Virtua Fighter 2.


Why did you go for Virtua Fighter Japan version and not US?

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Atariboy
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby Atariboy » May 2nd, 2019, 3:47 pm

Japanese copies tend to be much cheaper for the Saturn.

Sonicx9
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby Sonicx9 » May 2nd, 2019, 4:36 pm

Atariboy wrote:Japanese copies tend to be much cheaper for the Saturn.


True, but the menues may be in Japanese, that why?

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DrLitch
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby DrLitch » May 3rd, 2019, 1:57 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:I'm using this as an excuse to order some Saturn games, namely the original Virtua Fighter (Japan) and Virtua Fighter Remix. It'll also give me better perspective on Virtua Fighter 2.


Do not expect too much from VF1 - it is very chunky and limited. A good first effort, I guess, but I am being kind to it. Compared to VF2, it is a bit like comparing Street Fighter to Street Fighter 2. You need some very powerful rose tinted glasses or beer goggles to see either introduction to the series in a positive light. VF2 is a somewhat decent game but my personal enjoyment was marred by Tekken which was superior in every way. Much like the SNK titles of their day being judged against SF2.

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VideoGameCritic
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby VideoGameCritic » May 3rd, 2019, 2:59 pm

I feel like I need to review these games because of their place in history. I vaguely recall Saturn fans being really unhappy with the early version of this game, especially when the system was going up against the PS1.

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DrLitch
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby DrLitch » May 3rd, 2019, 7:06 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:I feel like I need to review these games because of their place in history. I vaguely recall Saturn fans being really unhappy with the early version of this game, especially when the system was going up against the PS1.


The Saturn version was a rush job and there were graphical glitches galore. It has been a long time since I played it (mid 90's) but if memory serves me right there was draw in as well - in a fighting game with narrow field, this is not good. The flat shaded polygons were otherwise true to the arcade. The PS1 at the time sported fully textured polygons on most of it's showcase titles. Understandably, Saturn owners were wondering if they invested in the right console. 25 years since and it is apparent that time has been kinder to the Saturn than the PS1.

djc
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby djc » May 4th, 2019, 1:11 am

VideoGameCritic wrote:I feel like I need to review these games because of their place in history. I vaguely recall Saturn fans being really unhappy with the early version of this game, especially when the system was going up against the PS1.


I'd be interested in how it rates against the 32X version as well (which is pretty good IMO).

ThePixelatedGenocide
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » May 6th, 2019, 3:05 am

VF2 is a somewhat decent game but my personal enjoyment was marred by Tekken which was superior in every way. Much like the SNK titles of their day being judged against SF2.


Sure, Tekken 1 offers more reward, has more atmospheric music, and lacks the cringe inducing voice acting, but superior in every way? For one thing, it's uglier, and that early CGI hasn't aged well at all.

For another -

There was always a quality that Virtua Fighter had that seemed to always push it up to the top of my playlist. Sure, there was the depth, there was the control, there was the awesome visuals, but there was something else that seemed to escape me. Then, I picked up Soul Calibur again, and found it.

A lot of people (i.e. Tekken fans) complain that VF is too stiff. Moves don't naturally flow into one another and make the characters seem unresponsive compared to Tekken or Soul Calibur. This same complaint is laid out for DOA on occasion, but for now let's stick to Tekken and VF.

There is a reason for that. Yes, people, it was a conscious attempt by AM2 to make VF 'stiff'. This is to prevent 'accidental execution'. As I mentioned, I played Soul Calibur recently, and found myself frustrated that I'd be executing another move instead of the move I wanted to.

That doesn't sound right, but let me explain. I choose Mitsurugi and dash forward by double tapping forward. I press Y (oops, Dreamcast control scheme, bear with me) twice, wanting to perform Mitsurugi's basic vertical combo. Instead, I perform a rising slash (non-technical SC terminology, I know, but I'm sure SC players get it). What happened?

Fighting games program in a certain leniency when it comes to executing attacks, so when I want a Dragon Punch, I don't need to tap Forward, Down, Down-Forward with clockwork precision. It allows for a bit of human error, otherwise all fighting games would be nigh unplayable.

Namco programs in a good deal of this leniency (Eddy Gordo, I'm looking at you) to allow beginners to get to grips with the controls, and still have fun kicking some butt. Sega AM2 on the other hand, created a much, much stricter window for Virtua Fighter. This creates frustration in a new player, because it is harder to 'discover' a character's movelist. This is probably why VF has mainly tap-tap moves. But then, this tighter window for execution means that there are rarely cases where you go, 'Hey, I didn't wanna do that, I wanted to do this!' For a master VF player, every move has to be deliberate, and the game's genius lies in the system's ability to discern if a player executes a tap-tap move after a forward dash. This allows for buffering, a concept that VF inherited from Street Fighter (remember the two-in-ones), to be a major part of strategy, and advanced VF players have learned to anticipate opponents 2 or 3 moves in advance (including the Throw escape system mentioned in previous posts) much like chess players often do. The way some of those expert Japanese VF players move though... even I can't believe what they are capable of.

Couple that with VF's much more intuitive movelists, sense of momentum, counter and stagger system, and you've got my reasons why I adore VF over Tekken. There is a definite learning curve to VF, but once you've hurdled that... man, oh man, it's HARD to go back.

Before you think I've got too much VF on my brain, I played a lot more of Tekken 1 than VF2 in the arcade. :)


- someone on the IGN boards named pfneri, back in 2006.

I don't read IGN, and I only found this post because of a Google search. But it sums up why Tekken's gameplay disappointed me, and many other folks who prefer Sega's take on the fighting genre.

MSR1701
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby MSR1701 » May 7th, 2019, 1:46 pm

Random fact on Virtua Fighter - much of the original Arcade team had a hand on the Saturn version, while a USA-based team handled the 32X port. The 32X Version had additional modes and options added in to cater to the home players. The Arcade/Saturn team demanded that these additions be removed or they would stall the production of the game. The American team fought this and won, allowing the 32X VF to be released.

There was a cost to this - the Saturn Eternal Darkness game was forever buried by the Saturn/Arcade VF crew out of anger at the 32X VF.

On that note, personally I find the original release of VF on the Saturn to be inferior to the 32X version, though the graphic overhaul for the "Remix" edition on Saturn is very nice.

jon
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Re: Saturn Virtua Fighter?

Postby jon » May 8th, 2019, 10:16 am

I've heard the Saturn VF2 was really popular in Japan. Make no mistake, this is a legendary game and I'm sure has aged much better than PS1 fighters, Please!! The first time anyone made truly 3d games was the Model 2 in 93'-94'. And they were amazing. I really think that playing the Model 2 version in 94' really puts things in perspective.


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