Sega Saturn in 3D

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ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 560
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » September 6th, 2020, 2:12 pm

jon wrote:IThese programmers that you’re taking their word for are SPECULATING what it is capable of.



Go on; tell him he's speculating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8plen8cLro

Oh, right. You don't read posts.

Shame, or you'd know I got the quad counts direct from the games themselves.

LoganRuckman
Posts: 343
Joined: April 10th, 2015, 1:04 am

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby LoganRuckman » September 6th, 2020, 2:18 pm

jon wrote:I’m glad you agree with my last post. There is nothing on the Saturn that comes close to Super Mario 64. To claim it is capable of that is pure speculation.

What I don’t understand, is why do you deny that you’re speculating about what the Saturn was capable of? There’s no proof that it could do Super Mario 64 or compete with the PS1 just using its 3d library as evidence.

But Pixelated doesn’t care that the Saturn’s 3d output wasn’t competitive with the PS1’s. He takes certain programmer’s views instead of the actual 3d library.

These programmers that you’re taking their word for are SPECULATING what it is capable of. I’m using it’s 3d output which is evidence.

It doesn’t matter how great these programmers are. I have no doubt they’re amazing programmers that are the best in the world. But at the end of the day they’re speculating what is possible. The Saturn’s 3d library is evidence that it wasn’t competitive 3d wise with the PS1.

The reason you’ve lost this argument is because I’m using evidence, it’s 3d library. And you’re using speculation. Again, I’m sure these programmers are the best in the world. But the Saturn’s 3d library still was pathetic compared to the PS1’s and that’s why it got totally creamed by the PS1.


Weren't you just whining that we weren't listening to analysts or something? But now you're the one being dismissive of the actual programmers who know the hardware better than any of us, and indeed, better than a bunch of stuffy overpaid corporate shills, I mean analysts.

Btw, we all know that Saturn had worse 3D than PS1 and N64. We have all acknowledged this several times already. Why do you think that's the one part of your argument we disagree with when it's actually the one part we do agree with? Move on, that's just arguing with nothing.

jon
Posts: 736
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 2:21 pm

You’re not showing a game as evidence. If you don’t show a game that is capable of what you’re saying, there’s no point in even bringing it up.

You could show me anything you could possibly do, from an expert programmer. But you’re not showing me any game.

The only evidence that would prove you’re correct is an actual game that does these things. How you even continue knowing how pathetic the Saturn’s 3d output was compared to its rivals is a joke.

Did you not read my post where I say over and over again that you need to show an actual game? What’s the point if there’s no game?

And responding to the last post, whatever these programmers are saying is possible doesn’t matter unless there’s a game that proved it.

Why do you think you can gain the upper hand in this debate when all you show me is interviews and demonstrations that don’t show an actual game?

These sources you keep bringing are utterly useless because they don’t show actual games. You won’t even acknowledge that?

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 560
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » September 6th, 2020, 2:31 pm

LoganRuckman wrote:Btw, we all know that Saturn had worse 3D than PS1 and N64. We have all acknowledged this several times already. Why do you think that's the one part of your argument we disagree with when it's actually the one part we do agree with? Move on, that's just arguing with nothing.


If he's going to strawman us, he could at least claim we're arguing that the Saturn could do a flawless 60fps port of Perfect Dark using original assets.

Just imagine that port in action: the frames would just leisurely drift by, one by one, as if we were turning the pages in a book.

And then we start the multiplayer, with all bots enabled.

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 560
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » September 6th, 2020, 2:36 pm

jon wrote:actual games


You forgot to mention why the Sonic R 2000+ geometry detail per frame/512k texture engine is incapable of handling Mario 64, when those are the exact same specs as Mario 64 on DS, and the outdoor problem was clearly solved.

If you're going to keep trolling, you seriously need to step up your game.

C'mon, dance for us.

jon
Posts: 736
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 2:56 pm

I said, show me a 3d platformer on the Saturn that’s anywhere close to as advanced as Super Mario 64. Can you do that?

If you can’t then you have nothing to fall back on other than pure speculation.

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 560
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » September 6th, 2020, 3:20 pm

DrLich wrote:You are kind for saying that, always glad to make new pals online.


Same.

DrLich wrote:I do not see Lost Woods on Original Zelda as a set of flat blotches, I got birds and wildlife going on in my head exploring around.


Do you really? My aphantasia prevents me from seeing anything except what's on the screen. And as a kid, it took me too long to get over being a horrible graphics snob. ("Astyanax is a better game than Zelda II, because look at it!")

I really missed out, and it's why I'm now such a fan of the 5th generation now. And the ZX Spectrum. And other games that are difficult to enjoy at a moment's glance.

DrLich wrote:Limited but fascinating. I wish they would have released whatever assets they had on the SNES Classic.


I've been thinking about that...what if we did see some of those assets? Low poly Mario in the distance shots, for example, could easily be done on a Super FX 2. Especially if they kept improving the technology as prices dropped, or if the rumors were true about Nintendo planning for carts with multiple chips.


DrLich wrote:Did the SNES not have FX Fighter in the works as well? I recollect on my old DOS PC something like that coming out. Not good though....


Nintendo dodged a bullet. That game would have destroyed any goodwill Starfox and DKC had bought them.


Dr.Lich wrote:Now this is one of those things I do not get. Do the programmers not know the pile of crap they are releasing?


Sure. But the idea is to flood the market with crap that takes zero effort or cost to make - all the characters are SNK sprites they drew over. They were basically a glorified pirate company.

DrLich wrote:Blood Warrior


Oh my God. LOL. I'm in tears. This is beautiful. I think I'm in love.

Thank you for this. I needed that laugh.

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 560
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » September 6th, 2020, 3:37 pm

jon wrote:I said, show me a 3d platformer on the Saturn that’s anywhere close to as advanced as Super Mario 64. Can you do that?

If you can’t then you have nothing to fall back on other than pure speculation.


Image

Image

jon
Posts: 736
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 3:50 pm

I said show me A 3D PLATFORMER that’s almost as advanced as Super Mario 64, not 1 level from a game that isn’t a 3d platformer.

Instead you show me 1 level from a game that isn’t a 3d platformer.

Your whole argument rests on one level from a game that isn’t a 3d platformer.

Your argument is indefensible. How about you admit your argument is all speculation?

You have absolutely no game to reference that’s a 3d platformer on the Saturn that could come close to Super Mario 64.

I specifically said 3d platformer because I knew you were going to show me Sonic Jam.

That’s not a 3d platformer. Super Mario 64 has 15 big levels. The game also has 3 boss levels as well as secret levels. There are a lot of stars to collect and enemies and a big 3d castle. What you showed me was 1 level with no challenges, and no enemies.

How can you claim your argument has any validity when the Saturn never had a 3d platformer that came close to Super Mario 64?

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 560
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » September 6th, 2020, 5:12 pm

jon wrote:No Goomba AI.


It has 3d platforming, hence it's a 3d platforming engine. And it has other characters, and collision detection. Turning them into enemies would require less than a few kilobytes of hacking.

jon wrote:I want a castle.


Image

Too many tree sprites. My Saturn is having Virtual Hylide flashbacks.

Seriously, look how boring that courtyard is compared to Sonic Jam's level. Why can't Mario 64 do that?


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