Sega Saturn in 3D

Reserved for classic gaming discussions.
jon
Posts: 707
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 5:26 pm

That’s 1 level without any challenges. Do you have any idea how little credibility you have by showing 1 level with no challenges, and comparing it to Super Mario 64 which has 15 levels with 3 boss levels and secret levels as well as a castle. You’re delusional. I don’t think at this point anyone should take seriously anything you say.

Why won’t you acknowledge that the Saturn has no 3d platformers that are anywhere close to as advanced as Super Mario 64?
Last edited by jon on September 6th, 2020, 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DrLitch
Posts: 474
Joined: July 19th, 2017, 12:57 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby DrLitch » September 6th, 2020, 5:27 pm

jon wrote:I said show me A 3D PLATFORMER that’s almost as advanced as Super Mario 64, not 1 level from a game that isn’t a 3d platformer.


Before Mario 64 we had Jumpin Flash on PS1. Mario 64 was a tremendous step forward. Released in Sept 1996 on our shores.

The first meaningful non N64 title that was a true 3D platformer, albeit limited, was released on Saturn and PS1 in Sept 1997. It was called Croc and yes it is underwhelming.

Spyro, the first legitimate challenger to Mario 64 released on PS1 in Sept 1998. Spyro 2 came along and raised the graphical bar.

Where does this leave the Saturn given the PS1 had to wait a couple of years for a legitimate challenger in late 1998?

The Saturn was discontinued in 1998.

Discontinued, as in bye bye, wave white flag, brown bread, dead, finished, kaput....

And you moan about no 3D platformers in it's library when the PS1 also did not have much going on until 1998 when the Saturn was discontinued. You grump at us for not procuring a 3D platformer on a system where in 1997 it was no secret it was about to get flushed down the toilet, less than 6 months after Mario launched Sept 1996?.

Croc also came out on PC in 1997. The same PC I had with Pentium II, 3DFX Voodoo II GPU. There were no platformers in a 3D space before this (ignoring early DOS games drawing a few dozen flat shaded polys on screen) on a PC. Using your logic in 1998 the PC was incapable of drawing a 3D game like Mario 64 - that is if we were to have this discussion in 1998. In 1999 I could emulate it with the same hardware once the first N64 emulator was released. In 1999 I show you Mario 64 being emulated on the PC. But in 1999 you would move that goalpost with nevermind that does not count I was talking of office PC's instead.

jon wrote:Instead you show me 1 level from a game that isn’t a 3d platformer.


Bar movage again -How is Sonic Jam level not a 3D platformer? Who cares the game features only one level? Moot.

Sonic can run around a 3D space, Check
Sonic can jump in a 3D space, Check

Are thinking what I am thinking? If it looks like a duck.....

jon
Posts: 707
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 5:34 pm

You claimed the Saturn could make a game like Super Mario 64. How do you know why there was only 1 level in Sonic Jam. You’re not an insider. You don’t know what was going on. Sonic Extreme was using the Nights into Dreams engine, not what is seen in Sonic Jam. That’s presumably because the Sonic Jam engine wasn’t capable of making that good of a game. You don’t know how far they could’ve gone with that engine. There is 1 level with no fun challenges or anything like you’ll see in a traditional 3d platformer. If anything that would lead one to believe the Saturn wasn’t capable of doing a traditional platformer with that engine. Are you claiming they chose to have that level not have any sort of challenge or purpose that you’d see in a normal 3d platformer?

Why do you act like 1 level on Sonic Jam is anywhere near a game like Super Mario 64 with 15 levels, 3 boss levels, secret levels, and a huge castle complete with all sorts of fun challenges.

Why can’t you just admit the Saturn didn’t come close to making a 3d platformer like Super Mario 64?

User avatar
DrLitch
Posts: 474
Joined: July 19th, 2017, 12:57 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby DrLitch » September 6th, 2020, 7:41 pm

jon wrote:How do you know why there was only 1 level in Sonic Jam. You’re not an insider. You don’t know what was going on.


The Saturn used a CD Rom format, it could store easily dozens of levels. Nothing to do with hardware power. If you are not prepared to do the most minimum of basic research for a debate then as far as I am concerned I will not reciprocate. You do not even give anyone the courtesy of reading a post before replying. You are putting zero effort into this.

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 531
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » September 6th, 2020, 7:59 pm

jon wrote:That’s 1 level without any challenges.


Thanks for proving that you've never played any of the time attack/stage exploration challenges.

I already knew, but it's nice to have a solid confirmation.

jon
Posts: 707
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 8:05 pm

Ok I agree this is going nowhere. Maybe the fact that my questions aren't getting answered shows that you've given up and decided to gang up on me.

Why do you not accept that it got outsold in the United States by the PS1 52 million to 1.8 million because its 3d library was significantly inferior to the PS1's?

User avatar
DrLitch
Posts: 474
Joined: July 19th, 2017, 12:57 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby DrLitch » September 6th, 2020, 8:25 pm

jon wrote:Ok I agree this is going nowhere. Maybe the fact that my questions aren't getting answered shows that you've given up and decided to gang up on me.


No gang banging from anyone. You need to put the effort in to keep a debate man. I know you are a heavy metal fan and you could probably talk for hours and hours given you know your stuff and genres/sub genres. For some reason this particular topic of 3D gaming on the Saturn does not interest you enough to put the effort in. If you want easy answers there are none, that is why we are debating.


ThePixelatedGenocide wrote:Image


Sonic is looking quite good there. Not out of place at all 5th gen wise. Comparable to many 3D efforts on other systems. The blue hedgehog just never could quite replicate the fun of it's 2D into 3D. The Dreamcast games were not bad but that beautiful 16 bit world of lush greens and blues just never came out quite right, something missing. Even Nintendo's own Metroid just did not feel right as a third person. Forget the horrible scripting of Metroid M, the whole game is missing what made 2D Metroid special and I do not think there is any fix for that. It could just be us gamers that grew up in the late 80's / 90's are a tough to please crowd.


ThePixelatedGenocide wrote:And as a kid, it took me too long to get over being a horrible graphics snob.


Hah LOL, I bought Rise of the Robots for graphics alone. What a crap game, I want the Critic to play it and review it. Along with James. I bought Mikey Mania because it was a work of art on the Genesis (and frankly it looks amazing). It is actually not a very fun game, nowhere near as fun as Castle of Illusion for instance (which only has one flaw in that a preschooler could beat it).
Aladdin was another. Quite honestly I do not get it. Beautiful, yes. Fun... I dunno game feels unfinished to me, I do not know why. Neverhood in '96 was the game that pulled me from the dark side of graphics over substance - it was artistic, intelligent, funny, ....'98 when I build my first PC is when everything changed. I started getting into the CRPG genre, stopped thinking about artistic graphics, and spend hours and hours grinding through games that offered deep content. Fallout is still a game that gives me goosebumps when I think of it. If it is not the greatest game ever made it is right up there. I remembered Wasteland from earlier and Fallout was the conclusion of that vision. Of course Final Fantasy VII is a beloved title, for some reason I am an RPG/JRPG freak. I guess that might be why the N64 is the console I liked least in that gen. Still though, Goldeneye two player, oh yeah.... you brought up Perfect Dark - man that game could have been perfect if it launched on the Dreamcast instead of N64. The first person shooter genre is not at all well suited to sub-60fps gameplay. I can handle 30fps or less even on most genres but fps and racing games it is a sin not running 60fps. Even Nintendo knew that and made compromises for F-Zero to run 60fps, and Sega did a good job with the Dreamcast game.

jon
Posts: 707
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 8:29 pm

You're both ganging up on me. It's obvious. You won't acknowledge the Saturn's shortcomings because you won't admit I'm right. If you weren't ganging up on me you would've answered this question.

Why do you not accept that it got outsold in the United States by the PS1 52 million to 1.8 million because its 3d library was significantly inferior to the PS1's?

brendand
Posts: 45
Joined: April 13th, 2016, 4:59 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby brendand » September 6th, 2020, 8:35 pm

Someone mentioned this game earlier

3D Platformer
Large open worlds ( for Sega Saturn anyway )


Sega Saturn was capable of 3D platformers similar to Super Mario 64 unfortunately there was not many like this




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulk52R5f528

jon
Posts: 707
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Re: Sega Saturn in 3D

Postby jon » September 6th, 2020, 8:46 pm

This Ninpen Manmaru looks like the Sonic Jam engine. There’s no way to attack enemies or do anything fun. What have I been saying all along? I’ve been saying there’s no way to make the game fun by having enemies to attack, interesting challenges, or anything.

This game just confirms to me that this is the most the Saturn was capable of. This engine has so many shortcomings there’s no way it could’ve competed with the PS1 or N64.


Return to “Classic Gaming”