Gamergate
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Segatarious1
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
so why are the fanatical mods allowed to post off topic and derail threads? huh.
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Segatarious1
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
Nintendo did not make Bayonetta. They agreed to publish it in return for system exclusivity.
Bayonetta is indeed a low class game, and shows what the idustry is capable off when its 'highest effort' is put into mixing gameplay with 'ambitious' character development and story. Which is why the ENTIRE gamergate (label makes zero sense) and social justice and games are art talking points simply dissolve. Because the industry is not capable of producing content that merits recognition as serious art and therefore does not allow serious discussion of those topics.
The most ambitious video games, simply put, are below both comic books and Michael Bay films.
Nintendo does not try to compete with the film industry, though you can find some limited examples of Nintendo failures in game cinema, such as Metroid Other M, which like Bayonetta, was not made by core Nintendo teams. It is both hilarious and iropnic that 'fans' of the Metroid series hate Other M because it makes Samus 'too weak', - they simply want a female killing machine with big boobs and no emotion or conscious, no human character. Other M is a failure, no doubt, but the criticism of why it is a failure from both game media and the gaming community complete undermines these politically sensitive themes they claim to champion. They do not want depth, they want to wallow in fanboyism of shallow, stereotypical game characters and scenarios. And they have no end of either, with gaming,
Bayonetta is indeed a low class game, and shows what the idustry is capable off when its 'highest effort' is put into mixing gameplay with 'ambitious' character development and story. Which is why the ENTIRE gamergate (label makes zero sense) and social justice and games are art talking points simply dissolve. Because the industry is not capable of producing content that merits recognition as serious art and therefore does not allow serious discussion of those topics.
The most ambitious video games, simply put, are below both comic books and Michael Bay films.
Nintendo does not try to compete with the film industry, though you can find some limited examples of Nintendo failures in game cinema, such as Metroid Other M, which like Bayonetta, was not made by core Nintendo teams. It is both hilarious and iropnic that 'fans' of the Metroid series hate Other M because it makes Samus 'too weak', - they simply want a female killing machine with big boobs and no emotion or conscious, no human character. Other M is a failure, no doubt, but the criticism of why it is a failure from both game media and the gaming community complete undermines these politically sensitive themes they claim to champion. They do not want depth, they want to wallow in fanboyism of shallow, stereotypical game characters and scenarios. And they have no end of either, with gaming,
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ptdebate1
- Posts: 909
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
Segatarious,
Bayonetta has been criticized for its costumes and provocative camera angles, not for its storytelling missteps. Know why? Because it's a deliberately campy string of action set pieces--not some serious drama or character study as you seem to think. The story exists solely to link together one bit of gameplay to the next. Bayonetta's story is comparable to the Bowser in Mushroom Kingdom narrative. It's fun, ridiculous, and irreverent--just like Nintendo's own best creations. This is perfectly in keeping with the solo character action genre--see DmC and classic Devil May Cry for more examples.
On the other hand, I'd love to hear some reasoned arguments as to why you deem The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, The Longest Journey, Lost Odyssey, Chrono Trigger, The Walking Dead, or any of the other "most ambitious video games" to be "below Michael Bay films." Your conception of what constitutes the best this medium has to offer says more about your personal gaming habits than anything else.
Get out and breathe the fresh air once in a while, my friend.
Bayonetta has been criticized for its costumes and provocative camera angles, not for its storytelling missteps. Know why? Because it's a deliberately campy string of action set pieces--not some serious drama or character study as you seem to think. The story exists solely to link together one bit of gameplay to the next. Bayonetta's story is comparable to the Bowser in Mushroom Kingdom narrative. It's fun, ridiculous, and irreverent--just like Nintendo's own best creations. This is perfectly in keeping with the solo character action genre--see DmC and classic Devil May Cry for more examples.
On the other hand, I'd love to hear some reasoned arguments as to why you deem The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, The Longest Journey, Lost Odyssey, Chrono Trigger, The Walking Dead, or any of the other "most ambitious video games" to be "below Michael Bay films." Your conception of what constitutes the best this medium has to offer says more about your personal gaming habits than anything else.
Get out and breathe the fresh air once in a while, my friend.
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Segatarious1
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
Chrono Trigger is a generic RPG. (story wise) - Medivel times (knights of square table!) future times (dystopian, go figure!) caveman times (dino's vs apes!). Oh, a tom boy princess, hiding the fact that she is a princess. A tom boy girl who invents whacky machines. A failed Knight turned into a Toad. Really, is that all you have?
Gabrieal Knight is really old, but I missed that one. I have, as a rule, disliked the modern point and click Sierra games from that era compared to their old DOS ones though. The Adventure charm was lost through the over production of game story.
A random collection of game examples that are not terribly noteworthy vs a mountain of dreck. Not much of a hand to play. And, no, I will not be buying or playing Bayonetta.
Gabrieal Knight is really old, but I missed that one. I have, as a rule, disliked the modern point and click Sierra games from that era compared to their old DOS ones though. The Adventure charm was lost through the over production of game story.
A random collection of game examples that are not terribly noteworthy vs a mountain of dreck. Not much of a hand to play. And, no, I will not be buying or playing Bayonetta.
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Atarifever1
- Posts: 3892
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
[QUOTE=Segatarious]It is both hilarious and iropnic that 'fans' of the Metroid series hate Other M because it makes Samus 'too weak', - they simply want a female killing machine with big boobs and no emotion or conscious, no human character. Other M is a failure, no doubt, but the criticism of why it is a failure from both game media and the gaming community complete undermines these politically sensitive themes they claim to champion. They do not want depth, they want to wallow in fanboyism of shallow, stereotypical game characters and scenarios. And they have no end of either, with gaming,[/QUOTE]
You've never understood the criticism of this game, because you've never treated it fairly. You've argued with me before that it is a B movie script in a game that can only hope to be B movie, like all games. The problem people have isn't that it is B movie, or that Samus is not a "killing machine with big boobs." At least, that's certainly not my problem. My problem is that it's a Z movie script. It is the worst thing I have ever seen, in any form of media, period. It is a low point for storytelling in every medium ever made. It is so bad (and I am not exaggerating my feelings on this) it makes me physically ill to watch it. It is more tone deaf, stupid, and mindless than any other game I have ever played. The story in Gears of War is an epic ballad compared to Other M, and THAT is really saying something.
You are being intentionally blind if you think people who hate Other M hate it because it is only as bad as other games. God man, the initials are MOM, Other M is "Mother," the signal at the start is a "babies cry," and the ship is a "bottle ship," and that's the first two minutes! It's the story of a verbally abused woman with mommy issues being physically abused by an old boyfriend after being oggled in a bathing suit by the game's audience. It's not just bad like other games. It is everything ever wrong with every gross, disgusting man-child game you hate all put in one game, at once, turned up to 11, and then dressed in a Nintendo skin for fan service. If you hate Bayonetta for what it is, you should be buying copies of Other M just for burning.
The worst story in any game ever, the most tone-deaf, ugly, stupid piece of media ever put out by a major videogame publisher is a Nintendo game. Sorry.
You've never understood the criticism of this game, because you've never treated it fairly. You've argued with me before that it is a B movie script in a game that can only hope to be B movie, like all games. The problem people have isn't that it is B movie, or that Samus is not a "killing machine with big boobs." At least, that's certainly not my problem. My problem is that it's a Z movie script. It is the worst thing I have ever seen, in any form of media, period. It is a low point for storytelling in every medium ever made. It is so bad (and I am not exaggerating my feelings on this) it makes me physically ill to watch it. It is more tone deaf, stupid, and mindless than any other game I have ever played. The story in Gears of War is an epic ballad compared to Other M, and THAT is really saying something.
You are being intentionally blind if you think people who hate Other M hate it because it is only as bad as other games. God man, the initials are MOM, Other M is "Mother," the signal at the start is a "babies cry," and the ship is a "bottle ship," and that's the first two minutes! It's the story of a verbally abused woman with mommy issues being physically abused by an old boyfriend after being oggled in a bathing suit by the game's audience. It's not just bad like other games. It is everything ever wrong with every gross, disgusting man-child game you hate all put in one game, at once, turned up to 11, and then dressed in a Nintendo skin for fan service. If you hate Bayonetta for what it is, you should be buying copies of Other M just for burning.
The worst story in any game ever, the most tone-deaf, ugly, stupid piece of media ever put out by a major videogame publisher is a Nintendo game. Sorry.
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Vexer1
- Posts: 883
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
The main reason for Other M's problems are that the director of the game was a total egomaniac who would not accept one ounce of criticism and refused to change the behavior of Samus and the others to make them more "in character", he also rejected having Samus voiced by Jennifer Hale and instead had her voiced by someone who had never done voice acting before and insisted that she say her lines in a very specific way, he was also responsible for the game's very forced and awkward motion controls as he insisted on using them despite objections from other dev team members that they were not up to par.
I wouldn't call it the worst story ever(not worse then something truly awful like Vampire Rain) not would I call it "tone deaf" and "ugly" it has promise but it's unfortunately not able to live up to it's potential due to the game director's ego trip.
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BanjoPickles1
- Posts: 1321
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
http://www.gamrreview.com/news/92068/nintendo-teams-up-with-playboy-to-promote-bayonetta-2/
Yep, sugarplums. Glad to see that Nintendo doesn't lower themselves to these sort of tactics like this company does! The same company that put vibrators and homosexual stereotypes in Captain Rainbow! I'm glad that Nintendo sticks to games with innocent themes!
I'm also glad that they don't release yearly iterations to their franchises, unlike that one company that released eight mainline Mario games between 2006 and 2013 (that's 8 Mario games in seven years), ten Mario Party games between the years of 1998 and 2007, countless Pokemon games released over the course of the past ten years, eight Zelda games released over ten years, etc. I'm glad Nintendo are the only ones not releasing yearly sequels!
I'm seriously getting sick of this guy coming on this site and basically telling everybody that their hobby is lower than pond scum, that they have a "dude bro" mentality for liking something beyond a T-rating, etc. He attacks people who post anything south of a superlative about Nintendo, he openly insults the mods, he has dodged bans by using different user names, etc. The guy may bring the occasional bit of insight, but how many previously-regular posters has this board lost because they got tired of having to deal with it?
I sincerely apologize for the outburst, but this constant belittling of gaming, and gamers, on a video game forum is not only getting old....it is also a bit insulting.
Yep, sugarplums. Glad to see that Nintendo doesn't lower themselves to these sort of tactics like this company does! The same company that put vibrators and homosexual stereotypes in Captain Rainbow! I'm glad that Nintendo sticks to games with innocent themes!
I'm also glad that they don't release yearly iterations to their franchises, unlike that one company that released eight mainline Mario games between 2006 and 2013 (that's 8 Mario games in seven years), ten Mario Party games between the years of 1998 and 2007, countless Pokemon games released over the course of the past ten years, eight Zelda games released over ten years, etc. I'm glad Nintendo are the only ones not releasing yearly sequels!
I'm seriously getting sick of this guy coming on this site and basically telling everybody that their hobby is lower than pond scum, that they have a "dude bro" mentality for liking something beyond a T-rating, etc. He attacks people who post anything south of a superlative about Nintendo, he openly insults the mods, he has dodged bans by using different user names, etc. The guy may bring the occasional bit of insight, but how many previously-regular posters has this board lost because they got tired of having to deal with it?
I sincerely apologize for the outburst, but this constant belittling of gaming, and gamers, on a video game forum is not only getting old....it is also a bit insulting.
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Segatarious1
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
[QUOTE=Atarifever][QUOTE=Segatarious]It is both hilarious and iropnic that 'fans' of the Metroid series hate Other M because it makes Samus 'too weak', - they simply want a female killing machine with big boobs and no emotion or conscious, no human character. Other M is a failure, no doubt, but the criticism of why it is a failure from both game media and the gaming community complete undermines these politically sensitive themes they claim to champion. They do not want depth, they want to wallow in fanboyism of shallow, stereotypical game characters and scenarios. And they have no end of either, with gaming,[/QUOTE]
You've never understood the criticism of this game, because you've never treated it fairly. You've argued with me before that it is a B movie script in a game that can only hope to be B movie, like all games. The problem people have isn't that it is B movie, or that Samus is not a "killing machine with big boobs." At least, that's certainly not my problem. My problem is that it's a Z movie script. It is the worst thing I have ever seen, in any form of media, period. It is a low point for storytelling in every medium ever made. It is so bad (and I am not exaggerating my feelings on this) it makes me physically ill to watch it. It is more tone deaf, stupid, and mindless than any other game I have ever played. The story in Gears of War is an epic ballad compared to Other M, and THAT is really saying something.
You are being intentionally blind if you think people who hate Other M hate it because it is only as bad as other games. God man, the initials are MOM, Other M is "Mother," the signal at the start is a "babies cry," and the ship is a "bottle ship," and that's the first two minutes! It's the story of a verbally abused woman with mommy issues being physically abused by an old boyfriend after being oggled in a bathing suit by the game's audience. It's not just bad like other games. It is everything ever wrong with every gross, disgusting man-child game you hate all put in one game, at once, turned up to 11, and then dressed in a Nintendo skin for fan service. If you hate Bayonetta for what it is, you should be buying copies of Other M just for burning.
The worst story in any game ever, the most tone-deaf, ugly, stupid piece of media ever put out by a major videogame publisher is a Nintendo game. Sorry. [/QUOTE]
I enjoyed reading this. Always a fun game to discuss.
I enjoyed the story in Other M, as you say, in a B movie way, so bad it is good. I love the atmosphere of the game, that 'bottle ship', it reminds me of the old school RE games.
Where I split with you, and the split is the extreme, is that you feel Other M is exceptionally bad, even for gaming. I cannot see that at all. Resident Evil 4 is far worse, Resident Evil 4 is completely ridiculous. Resident Evil 4 for story is like a modern NES game, but the NES games did not even try, that is why they had charm.
That is my main criticism of gaming, the harder they try at narrative, the harder they fail. There is no progress.
I do not feel Other M is offensive to women at all. It is a grand failure, but to say this is offensive is to be sensitive to the extreme, and I still defy this board to show me a deep, original, moving concept that placates women, in any game. As in , Other M is so bad, because here is a game that took that concept, and did it right. They ape archetypes, they always have, and they always will. The nature of games is such that they always end up either sacrificing the gameplay at the expense of story, or over stay the story segments to a point where almost anyone would lose interest, as the glaring flaws of the narrative begin to grind, it is the unchangeable nature of the beast, it is what separates games from every other story narrative there is, period. Game narrative is a square wheel.
Banjo, I am not surprised to see Nintendo team up with play boy, they have completely lost their market this gen, and are desperately targeting the 'hardcore' and are severely over playing 'cross over' fan service in games, including that one, and it is becoming annoying and more offensive than that pathetic playboy cos play. Bayonetta, dressed as Metroid, dressed as Link, dressed as 'Fox' - sick, predictable, boring, flat. Another reason I have no interest in this game whatsoever, despite the hype.
You've never understood the criticism of this game, because you've never treated it fairly. You've argued with me before that it is a B movie script in a game that can only hope to be B movie, like all games. The problem people have isn't that it is B movie, or that Samus is not a "killing machine with big boobs." At least, that's certainly not my problem. My problem is that it's a Z movie script. It is the worst thing I have ever seen, in any form of media, period. It is a low point for storytelling in every medium ever made. It is so bad (and I am not exaggerating my feelings on this) it makes me physically ill to watch it. It is more tone deaf, stupid, and mindless than any other game I have ever played. The story in Gears of War is an epic ballad compared to Other M, and THAT is really saying something.
You are being intentionally blind if you think people who hate Other M hate it because it is only as bad as other games. God man, the initials are MOM, Other M is "Mother," the signal at the start is a "babies cry," and the ship is a "bottle ship," and that's the first two minutes! It's the story of a verbally abused woman with mommy issues being physically abused by an old boyfriend after being oggled in a bathing suit by the game's audience. It's not just bad like other games. It is everything ever wrong with every gross, disgusting man-child game you hate all put in one game, at once, turned up to 11, and then dressed in a Nintendo skin for fan service. If you hate Bayonetta for what it is, you should be buying copies of Other M just for burning.
The worst story in any game ever, the most tone-deaf, ugly, stupid piece of media ever put out by a major videogame publisher is a Nintendo game. Sorry. [/QUOTE]
I enjoyed reading this. Always a fun game to discuss.
I enjoyed the story in Other M, as you say, in a B movie way, so bad it is good. I love the atmosphere of the game, that 'bottle ship', it reminds me of the old school RE games.
Where I split with you, and the split is the extreme, is that you feel Other M is exceptionally bad, even for gaming. I cannot see that at all. Resident Evil 4 is far worse, Resident Evil 4 is completely ridiculous. Resident Evil 4 for story is like a modern NES game, but the NES games did not even try, that is why they had charm.
That is my main criticism of gaming, the harder they try at narrative, the harder they fail. There is no progress.
I do not feel Other M is offensive to women at all. It is a grand failure, but to say this is offensive is to be sensitive to the extreme, and I still defy this board to show me a deep, original, moving concept that placates women, in any game. As in , Other M is so bad, because here is a game that took that concept, and did it right. They ape archetypes, they always have, and they always will. The nature of games is such that they always end up either sacrificing the gameplay at the expense of story, or over stay the story segments to a point where almost anyone would lose interest, as the glaring flaws of the narrative begin to grind, it is the unchangeable nature of the beast, it is what separates games from every other story narrative there is, period. Game narrative is a square wheel.
Banjo, I am not surprised to see Nintendo team up with play boy, they have completely lost their market this gen, and are desperately targeting the 'hardcore' and are severely over playing 'cross over' fan service in games, including that one, and it is becoming annoying and more offensive than that pathetic playboy cos play. Bayonetta, dressed as Metroid, dressed as Link, dressed as 'Fox' - sick, predictable, boring, flat. Another reason I have no interest in this game whatsoever, despite the hype.
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velcrozombie1
- Posts: 400
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Gamergate
So I guess this thread went from a conversation on Gamergate to Sega vs. the World Part #%$!@. I don't necessarily mind it - it just went the way of all flesh, I guess.
Can I just say that the first Bayonetta game is really, really FUN, and that you should play it provided you can stomach the aesthetics? I mean, I actually like Bayonetta as a character and I love the angelic and demonic designs and the general loony, anything-goes attitude of the game - but none of that would mean squat if the game wasn't one of the best action games ever made.
Can I just say that the first Bayonetta game is really, really FUN, and that you should play it provided you can stomach the aesthetics? I mean, I actually like Bayonetta as a character and I love the angelic and demonic designs and the general loony, anything-goes attitude of the game - but none of that would mean squat if the game wasn't one of the best action games ever made.