Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

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Matchstick
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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby Matchstick » July 13th, 2019, 6:24 pm

Sonicx9 wrote:It hard to say either way as it could be chicken or the egg.


Indeed, sir.

The only thing we know for sure is that the latest two games in the series have gone a more serious, realistic route than their predecessors. In my eyes, these changes are very welcomed, and as someone who's been a fan of the series for over 20 years now, defending the DOA franchise by saying, "I like it for the gameplay," has been the equivalent of saying, "I like to read Playboy for the articles." Always kinda gets me the side-eye when I talk about the series, but hey, it's been one of the best-playing 3D fighting game franchises out there since day one.

Upon further reading (and fact-checking) after my post last night, I found that Tecmo indeed intended to make wholesale changes to DOA 5 regarding the proportions of the fighters and their sex appeal, but then changed their mind after outcry from testers and members of the Japanese fighting game community. Whatever changes were fully made in DOA 6, the seeds for those changes seem to have been planted back in the DOA 5 development days.

I still think DOA 5 is a superior game to any DOA to come before it, and compared to DOA 4 it features much more realistic fighters and more accurate physics. A standout game, and if they carried those changes forward and continued to make improvements, I can see DOA 6 being the absolute best of the bunch.

It's funny how anxious I am to see the review now. Yeah, I know I can go to other sites, but I'm most interested in comparing The Critic's views on DOA 6 to the other games in the series that he's reviewed. We both seem to be fans, and I'm curious what another longtime fan of the series thinks of the latest entry.

Whether or not I buy this game may ultimately hinge on you, VGC. No pressure, or anything 8-)

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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby Sonicx9 » July 13th, 2019, 8:21 pm

Matchstick wrote:
Indeed, sir.

The only thing we know for sure is that the latest two games in the series have gone a more serious, realistic route than their predecessors. In my eyes, these changes are very welcomed, and as someone who's been a fan of the series for over 20 years now, defending the DOA franchise by saying, "I like it for the gameplay," has been the equivalent of saying, "I like to read Playboy for the articles." Always kinda gets me the side-eye when I talk about the series, but hey, it's been one of the best-playing 3D fighting game franchises out there since day one.

Upon further reading (and fact-checking) after my post last night, I found that Tecmo indeed intended to make wholesale changes to DOA 5 regarding the proportions of the fighters and their sex appeal, but then changed their mind after outcry from testers and members of the Japanese fighting game community. Whatever changes were fully made in DOA 6, the seeds for those changes seem to have been planted back in the DOA 5 development days.

I still think DOA 5 is a superior game to any DOA to come before it, and compared to DOA 4 it features much more realistic fighters and more accurate physics. A standout game, and if they carried those changes forward and continued to make improvements, I can see DOA 6 being the absolute best of the bunch.

It's funny how anxious I am to see the review now. Yeah, I know I can go to other sites, but I'm most interested in comparing The Critic's views on DOA 6 to the other games in the series that he's reviewed. We both seem to be fans, and I'm curious what another longtime fan of the series thinks of the latest entry.

Whether or not I buy this game may ultimately hinge on you, VGC. No pressure, or anything 8-)


One thing I see is DOA 5 is a mix of both serious and silly sexual fanservice like the older games but not as in your face, but 6 is way more focused on being serious and less about sexual fanservice, but at the end where you say about "It's funny how anxious I am to see the review now." Critic has reviewed every main DOA game save for the update versions of 5 like Ultimate on Xbox 360/PS3 and Last Round on PS4/Xbox One/PS3/Xbox 360 and PC, should the critic review Ultimate and Last Round along with 6 just for series completion sake?

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DrLitch
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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby DrLitch » July 14th, 2019, 10:14 am

I would not bet against that bikini/underwear costumes with this title. Sales not great they will try rake it in through DLC. That yields the biggest bugbear I have:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/8383 ... R_ALIVE_6/

I am not a fan of buying content AFTER I have purchased the game. I am even less of a fan if it is going to cost an arm and a leg.

As a game however it is quite decent. I would argue better than Soul Calibur 6 and Tekken 7 which came before it. At this time of writing it is difficult to see them developing another. Like Virtua Fighter, this series may well fall off at the edge of a cliff. Ultimately if you make no money.....

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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby Sonicx9 » July 14th, 2019, 6:15 pm

DrLitch wrote:I would not bet against that bikini/underwear costumes with this title. Sales not great they will try rake it in through DLC. That yields the biggest bugbear I have:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/8383 ... R_ALIVE_6/

I am not a fan of buying content AFTER I have purchased the game. I am even less of a fan if it is going to cost an arm and a leg.

As a game however it is quite decent. I would argue better than Soul Calibur 6 and Tekken 7 which came before it. At this time of writing it is difficult to see them developing another. Like Virtua Fighter, this series may well fall off at the edge of a cliff. Ultimately if you make no money.....


The DLC practices where not very good and a shame to that the game, flopped. It could have gotten a late Switch port as an Switch Pro exclusive due to hardware limitations, But because this game did poorly it unlikely and considering the DOA series is not popular on Nintendo does not help either.

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DrLitch
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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby DrLitch » July 14th, 2019, 9:28 pm

Sonicx9 wrote:The DLC practices where not very good and a shame to that the game, flopped. It could have gotten a late Switch port as an Switch Pro exclusive due to hardware limitations, But because this game did poorly it unlikely and considering the DOA series is not popular on Nintendo does not help either.


Switch could have done this game @ 720p without cutting anything out.

DOA6 appeals to fighting fans and had a well established cult following due to waifu fanservice. Once you tone that content you have a fighter that even fighting fans do not want to own - despite the fact that Dead or Alive easily stands on it's own merit and has a very solid and fun fighting engine.

Conceptually a bit like a new Steakhouse restaurant openeing. The manager/chef decide to create a reasonably inclusive menu - something for eveyone. There is food for meat eaters, a sub menu for vegetarians, and one or two selections for vegans. The local vegan community complained about the meat dishes, started harassing the owners, posted negative reviews on social media and so on. Bowing to pressure, the Steakhouse opted to go with a purely vegan menu. The result was the meat eaters stopped going to the restaurant, the vegetarians stopped going shortly thereafter, and in the end, even the vegans stopped showing up.

Sonicx9
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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby Sonicx9 » July 14th, 2019, 11:26 pm

DrLitch wrote:
Sonicx9 wrote:The DLC practices where not very good and a shame to that the game, flopped. It could have gotten a late Switch port as an Switch Pro exclusive due to hardware limitations, But because this game did poorly it unlikely and considering the DOA series is not popular on Nintendo does not help either.


Switch could have done this game @ 720p without cutting anything out.

DOA6 appeals to fighting fans and had a well established cult following due to waifu fanservice. Once you tone that content you have a fighter that even fighting fans do not want to own - despite the fact that Dead or Alive easily stands on it's own merit and has a very solid and fun fighting engine.

Conceptually a bit like a new Steakhouse restaurant openeing. The manager/chef decide to create a reasonably inclusive menu - something for eveyone. There is food for meat eaters, a sub menu for vegetarians, and one or two selections for vegans. The local vegan community complained about the meat dishes, started harassing the owners, posted negative reviews on social media and so on. Bowing to pressure, the Steakhouse opted to go with a purely vegan menu. The result was the meat eaters stopped going to the restaurant, the vegetarians stopped going shortly thereafter, and in the end, even the vegans stopped showing up.


The Waifu fanserivce is why DOA is controversial, heck when Sony started doing the censorship on PS4 many cult waifu fans flat out hated it and now want to boycott the brand and move to either Nintendo or PC, such a weird times we live in.

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Matchstick
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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby Matchstick » July 15th, 2019, 1:40 am

DrLitch wrote:Like Virtua Fighter, this series may well fall off at the edge of a cliff. Ultimately if you make no money.....


I wonder about this same issue myself. To my knowledge, many of the most recently released Japanese fighting games were not very profitable, if they were profitable at all - Soul Calibur 6, Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Street Fighter X Tekken, King of Fighters XIV, Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, etc. Of course, once you get up into the 5's, 6's and 7's (or 14's!) if you aren't making wholesale changes to your game, you probably aren't offering a product enticing enough to draw people in for another round. Yes, bad pun intended.

I believe the Mortal Kombat series has sold well recently, as has Injustice and, whether you believe it is a fighting game or not, Smash Brothers. With DOA, is there really much difference between, say, DOA 6 and DOA 5: Last Round? Doesn't seem so on the surface, at least to me. Same goes for Tekken 6 vs 7, or Soul Calibur 5 vs 6. If you blindfolded me and asked me to identify which version of the game I was playing, I probably couldn't. Of course, same goes for Mortal Kombat X vs 11, too.

I think this is the most saturated the fighting game market has been since the heyday of the mid-90's. There's even a new Samurai Shodown on the market, for cripe's sake! While I agree that it is a shame that Virtua Fighter seems to be dead, as Litch stated, it did go out on a high note with part 5. And I loved seeing the VF characters in DOA 5. They fit like a glove. Even if a Virtua Fighter 6 were announced, would anyone really expect it to be much different than part 5? Or even part 4?

Bottom line is, if you're asking $60 for a game, I expect there to be $60 worth of changes, as do many other gamers. Many fighting games these days seem to be the same sort of stagnant, stuck-in-the-mud offerings that don't improve much with each new version. A damn shame, because I will always love fighters, but I'm not some mindless robot that's going to fork over that kind of money for essentially the same product time after time. I'll leave that for the Madden and NBA 2K players of the world.

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DrLitch
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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby DrLitch » July 15th, 2019, 12:30 pm

Matchstick wrote:
I wonder about this same issue myself. To my knowledge, many of the most recently released Japanese fighting games were not very profitable, if they were profitable at all - Soul Calibur 6, Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Street Fighter X Tekken, King of Fighters XIV, Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, etc. Of course, once you get up into the 5's, 6's and 7's (or 14's!) if you aren't making wholesale changes to your game, you probably aren't offering a product enticing enough to draw people in for another round. Yes, bad pun intended.

I think this is the most saturated the fighting game market has been since the heyday of the mid-90's. There's even a new Samurai Shodown on the market, for cripe's sake! While I agree that it is a shame that Virtua Fighter seems to be dead, as Litch stated, it did go out on a high note with part 5. And I loved seeing the VF characters in DOA 5. They fit like a glove. Even if a Virtua Fighter 6 were announced, would anyone really expect it to be much different than part 5? Or even part 4?

Bottom line is, if you're asking $60 for a game, I expect there to be $60 worth of changes, as do many other gamers. Many fighting games these days seem to be the same sort of stagnant, stuck-in-the-mud offerings that don't improve much with each new version. A damn shame, because I will always love fighters, but I'm not some mindless robot that's going to fork over that kind of money for essentially the same product time after time. I'll leave that for the Madden and NBA 2K players of the world.


Agree with everything you said here. There are a lot of fighting games out there. That is without mentioning Guilty Gear and so on. A lot of time, a sequel will have slightly updated graphical engines, a few tweaks to the fighting mechanics, and perhaps a larger development focus on features/options. For those of us that just like playing a few rounds of arcade action, difference between DOA5LR and DOA6 is pretty trivial. DOA6 is horribly expensive as well. I do miss Sega of old. VF 5 was such a good game. I was a fan of number 2 as well.


Sonicx9 wrote:The Waifu fanserivce is why DOA is controversial, heck when Sony started doing the censorship on PS4 many cult waifu fans flat out hated it and now want to boycott the brand and move to either Nintendo or PC, such a weird times we live in.


I must live in a bubble and am oblivious to most things particularly what goes down in social media. I imagine there would be loud and vocal complaints over this. I wonder how censorship is going down in Japan which is one of the biggest Video Game Markets? Nintendo have already outsold the PS4 there although this could be totally uncorrelated with censorship (and correlated with appeal of the hardware).

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Re: Dead or Alive 6 (PS4)

Postby Sonicx9 » July 16th, 2019, 1:31 am

Response time:

Matchstick wrote:
I wonder about this same issue myself. To my knowledge, many of the most recently released Japanese fighting games were not very profitable, if they were profitable at all - Soul Calibur 6, Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Street Fighter X Tekken, King of Fighters XIV, Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, etc. Of course, once you get up into the 5's, 6's and 7's (or 14's!) if you aren't making wholesale changes to your game, you probably aren't offering a product enticing enough to draw people in for another round. Yes, bad pun intended.

I believe the Mortal Kombat series has sold well recently, as has Injustice and, whether you believe it is a fighting game or not, Smash Brothers. With DOA, is there really much difference between, say, DOA 6 and DOA 5: Last Round? Doesn't seem so on the surface, at least to me. Same goes for Tekken 6 vs 7, or Soul Calibur 5 vs 6. If you blindfolded me and asked me to identify which version of the game I was playing, I probably couldn't. Of course, same goes for Mortal Kombat X vs 11, too.

I think this is the most saturated the fighting game market has been since the heyday of the mid-90's. There's even a new Samurai Shodown on the market, for cripe's sake! While I agree that it is a shame that Virtua Fighter seems to be dead, as Litch stated, it did go out on a high note with part 5. And I loved seeing the VF characters in DOA 5. They fit like a glove. Even if a Virtua Fighter 6 were announced, would anyone really expect it to be much different than part 5? Or even part 4?

Bottom line is, if you're asking $60 for a game, I expect there to be $60 worth of changes, as do many other gamers. Many fighting games these days seem to be the same sort of stagnant, stuck-in-the-mud offerings that don't improve much with each new version. A damn shame, because I will always love fighters, but I'm not some mindless robot that's going to fork over that kind of money for essentially the same product time after time. I'll leave that for the Madden and NBA 2K players of the world.


Very good points as most Japanese fighting games outside of the recent Smash Bros. games have mostly underperformed and it shows.

DrLitch wrote:I must live in a bubble and am oblivious to most things particularly what goes down in social media. I imagine there would be loud and vocal complaints over this. I wonder how censorship is going down in Japan which is one of the biggest Video Game Markets? Nintendo have already outsold the PS4 there although this could be totally uncorrelated with censorship (and correlated with appeal of the hardware).


Hard to say, but the social media has been roaring like lions!


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