Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

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scotland
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby scotland » December 28th, 2017, 9:25 am

ptdebate wrote:Thanks for sharing your rankings! Let’s keep ‘me coming!

scotland wrote:6) The Force Awakens - A plot that is so unoriginal its basically a reboot with a Mary Sue heroine and a silly Super Sized Death Star that can now kill from a huge distance!


Although I respect your opinion, I think a lot of folks who referred to Rey as a “Mary Sue” will eat their words when we find out in the next film who she really is - essentially another Anakin, an incarnation of the force itself.

I don’t think we referred to little Ani as a Mary Sue because he could see the future and race pods at 1000 mph.


Now that we know about her lineage, does your opinion change?

GameOfThrones
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby GameOfThrones » December 28th, 2017, 5:10 pm

I had been saying to my brother for the last year how good rogue one was. For me the best one since Return of the Jedi.

So he bought it on blu ray for me for Christmas. Like me he thought the remake of A new hope Abrahams called The force awakens was disappointing. Of course I pointed out that is what JJ is famous for. Remakes whilst saying they are original

Anyway he watched it with me and loved it. Said it was as good as the original trilogy. I warned him that The last Jedi was just a remake of Empire strikes back. Though I am looking forward to the remake of return of the Jedi.. perhaps they will call it the middle jedi or something like that.

newmodelarmy
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby newmodelarmy » December 28th, 2017, 8:17 pm

Sut wrote:
ActRaiser wrote:I loved it.

I kept waiting for Leia to die and then when she came back unexpectedly, well, it kept surprising me. Luke drinking dragon's milk, um, yeah, I didn't see that coming.

That to me was the first time I've ever watched a 2 and half hour long movie and never once checked my watch to see if it was nearly over. Every scene was good and either exciting or propelled the story forward. Sure, in some ways some of it was pointless, but it set up a funny and exciting action sequence right afterward. Loved it.

Best scene of the movie: fire all cannons on that guy! Luke stands up and flicks some dust off his shoulder. Epic!

The uber Star Wars fans that are professing hatred toward The Last Jedi, frankly, need to shut the heck up. They don't own the franchise. If they don't like, don't buy it. Their self-entitled Star Wars fandom can be only "their" way is what drove Lucas away from the franchise to begin with.

It's a great movie for what it does, eschews any sort of previous convention and goes down it's own path. Brilliant. I'm looking forward to watching it again which isn't something I can say for most movies these days.


Well said sir !
The Star Wars fandom can be as toxic as Sonic’s


I agree! I am a HUGE Star Wars fan and loved the movie. No movie is beyond criticism but for pete's sake the Last Jedi was, if nothing else, entertaining. The "hard core" Star Wars fans take it way too seriously. Quite frankly, nothing is going to please them and after 8 movies I am glad they took some risks. Was TLJ perfect? Nope! I could have lived without the casino world scene and the whole animal rights crap but that did not detract too much from the film. None of the SW movies are perfect but it was a fun movie that "felt" like a SW movie. I can't wait to see it again and it is surely one I will own on DVD.

newmodelarmy
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby newmodelarmy » December 28th, 2017, 8:19 pm

GameOfThrones wrote:I had been saying to my brother for the last year how good rogue one was. For me the best one since Return of the Jedi.

So he bought it on blu ray for me for Christmas. Like me he thought the remake of A new hope Abrahams called The force awakens was disappointing. Of course I pointed out that is what JJ is famous for. Remakes whilst saying they are original

Anyway he watched it with me and loved it. Said it was as good as the original trilogy. I warned him that The last Jedi was just a remake of Empire strikes back. Though I am looking forward to the remake of return of the Jedi.. perhaps they will call it the middle jedi or something like that.


I agree that Rogue One was awesome but would not call the Last Jedi a remake of Empire. Sure there are some similarities (after 8 movies it would be impossible not to have some) but a remake? I don't think so.

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ptdebate
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby ptdebate » December 29th, 2017, 10:36 pm

scotland wrote:
ptdebate wrote:Thanks for sharing your rankings! Let’s keep ‘me coming!

scotland wrote:6) The Force Awakens - A plot that is so unoriginal its basically a reboot with a Mary Sue heroine and a silly Super Sized Death Star that can now kill from a huge distance!


Although I respect your opinion, I think a lot of folks who referred to Rey as a “Mary Sue” will eat their words when we find out in the next film who she really is - essentially another Anakin, an incarnation of the force itself.

I don’t think we referred to little Ani as a Mary Sue because he could see the future and race pods at 1000 mph.


Now that we know about her lineage, does your opinion change?


This film changed my opinion on a number of things. One of the big things it emphasized is that being strong with the force has nothing to do with lineage or any kind of special birth. Duh! I don't know why I didn't consider this angle before. I mean, Jedi can't breed and the extensive number of Jedi from the prequels surely can't have all been immaculately conceived. As far as we can tell, every card in the galaxy was stacked against Rey, and yet she succeeds as one of the greatest heroes in the Resistance. She's a real populist hero.

That being said, Rey does have special abilities others don't seem to have. Despite her coming from nothing, it's clear that, for whatever reason, the force has chosen her. Perhaps to once again bring balance. In any event, it is clear that any question about her natural abilities matching or even exceeding those or Anakin or Luke is answered "because the force." This is Star Wars after all.

ESauce
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby ESauce » January 2nd, 2018, 12:00 am

Saw this tonight and loved it. As a Star Wars movie it couldn’t hope to overtake the original trilogy in my list of favorites but it handily beats The Force Awakens and the rest of the Star Wars movies aren’t even in the same ballpark. Strictly viewing it as a movie though and ignoring all nostalgia, this is pretty clearly up with Empire Strikes Back as far as the best in the series if you ask me. It didn’t play it safe and it paid off.

The Leia scene maybe could have been better executed but no one should be questioning why she can use the force. She has always been able to; go rewatch Return of the Jedi if you forgot.

Other than that scene the movie was flawless in my mind. Mark Hamill was incredible, the writing was fantastic, and the fight scenes were the best since Return of the Jedi.

ESauce
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby ESauce » January 2nd, 2018, 12:06 am

GameOfThrones wrote:
Anyway he watched it with me and loved it. Said it was as good as the original trilogy. I warned him that The last Jedi was just a remake of Empire strikes back. Though I am looking forward to the remake of return of the Jedi.. perhaps they will call it the middle jedi or something like that.


I can see how you could say that the Force Awakens follows the plot of A New Hope too closely because they have a lot of plot points that are identical and follow a very similar story arc.

But The Last Jedi doesn’t match up with Empire Strikes Back at all except in the sense that both are Star Wars movies and both are the middle of the trilogy.

GameOfThrones
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby GameOfThrones » January 2nd, 2018, 4:28 am

I borrowed this from Amazon in the UK and am using it here under creative comms.
"ByG. C. Ramtohalon 30 December 2017
Format: DVD
The film is really bad. The acting is really poor; the plot does not make sense and the Luke's character was destroyed. The fact that this film does not have one lightsaber is unbelievable and the worst part of this film is the end. Luke Skywalker does not even fight. What is the point of having Luke in a star wars film in which he does not use a lightsaber.

Let's start with the plot holes.

1. There's no gravity in space so those bombs at the beginning would not fall in that way.
2. Luke did not go to the island to die otherwise why did he leave a map.
3. You cannot open ship doors without an airlock
4. Leia flying through space and surviving space is ridiculous.
5. Makes no sense that Rey can do everything with no training.
6. Why did Holdo not simply tell Po her plan?
7. The rebel base at the end, had no shield so why could it not be destroyed from space?
8. Hyperspace as a weapon means the rest of star wars now makes no sense. If hyperspace can be used as a weapon why not simply fly ships into the death star etc etc.
9. How did the code breaker simply just walk out of jail and why did he not do that earlier?
10. If the rebel ships were too fast for the imperial ships to shoot down why is it that they couldn't fly away from the slower imperial ships.

The film does not flow. The casino scene could have been deleted from the film. It adds nothing. The characters are not developed in anyway.

There is now no reason to watch the next film. No characters are on any kind of journey. Rey can do everything and doesn't need any training. Snoke, Luke and Han are dead so what the point of the next film.

I'm done with star wars and I doubt I'm the only one. In terms of box office sales, the force awakens will mark the high point. It's downhill from now on."
The chap makes a lot of good points about the plot holes. Plus I guessed the ending a long time before it ended.

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scotland
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby scotland » January 2nd, 2018, 7:12 am

GameOfThrones wrote: 8. Hyperspace as a weapon means the rest of star wars now makes no sense. If hyperspace can be used as a weapon why not simply fly ships into the death star etc etc.


The Hyperspace Ram stands out a lot. We have seen a lot of 'Wars' during the course of the Star Wars franchise, but this is a first time someone has done this when it would have been extremely useful before - Death Star, Skaris, etc.

Its hard to not have these kind of plot holes things (and it is a serious plot hole that now affects the whole franchise) happen - pulling out a new superpower, magic can do something in book 4 that it couldn't do before, etc - even with a single creative mind behind a storyline. Star Wars is a collaborative effort now, and things are not always going to jive.

I'm sure someone somewhere will write a plug - something special about the area around Crait, an old Rebel base, that only those who knew its history would know that hyperspace in that region has this special property or something about that cruiser or something.

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Stalvern
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby Stalvern » January 2nd, 2018, 10:08 am

GameOfThrones wrote:The chap makes a lot of good points about the plot holes.

There are some fair complaints in there, but some of these are ridiculous. Like the only way for bombs to move is by "falling" and not, say, being pushed out of a spaceship (which was already shown in The Empire Strikes Back anyway). Or the insane idea that because a kamikaze attack worked in this movie it's a "plot hole" that the Rebels weren't crashing all their ships into the bad guys from the beginning (if this were a remotely reasonable point, people would have been saying it about the crashes in The Return of the Jedi for decades now - they haven't because it's moronic). And it's absolutely possible to survive a vacuum - other movies don't show people exploding, freezing, and bleeding from their eyes because it's realistic but because it looks cool (2001: A Space Odyssey is just about the only time a movie's treated vacuum exposure even semi-accurately: Bowman floats around, alive, until he can get inside).

I'm sick of how everything's about taking sides with this movie. Either the film is perfect, and you're either a petulant fanboy or a friggin' Nazi if you have any problem with it, or it's a piece of irredeemable garbage that did literally nothing right (even though that Amazon review, for example, deals specifically with only a small, often trivial, set of the film's elements, going out of its way to twist perfectly reasonable details into franchise-ruining sins, and covers the rest with only the broadest strokes). I don't have any patience for either agenda.


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