Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

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DaHeckIzDat
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby DaHeckIzDat » November 6th, 2018, 11:00 pm

I know this is wishful thinking, but I've come up with a good way for JJ Abrams to save the final movie in the new trilogy. He'll never use it, but... I don't care, Imma type it up anyway.

TLJ's ending left the trilogy without a clear direction. The only thing that still needs to happen that hasn't already happened is for Rey to face off against Kylo Ren. And as much as I hated TLJ, there was one cool idea in it that I think could carry the last movie all on its own: the Force balancing itself out between Rey and Kylo.

So here's my idea: Rey and Kylo are both growing increasingly powerful, slowly but surely becoming the human incarnations of the light and dark sides of the Force. But the light and the dark are both parts of the same whole, so having them clash together this powerfully would be like having a punch up between your right and left hand. No matter who wins, they still lose. So, Rey and Kylo end up killing each other, and in doing so tear the Force in half. This creates a kind of spiritual black hole, sucking all traces of the Force out of the galaxy for the first time in forever. For a while, that's the end of things, but then like a forest after a wildfire people start to notice the Force returning, only somehow... different. A new, fresh Force ready to do Force-y things in a new and (hopefully) better and more balanced way.

Also, Rose comes back, but she finds out that everyone hates her since she essentially sacrificed the entire resistance just to save Finn. So she spends the movie redeeming herself... and hopefully dying in the process.

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Stalvern
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby Stalvern » November 7th, 2018, 12:54 am

The best move would be to replace the traditional opening crawl with an incompetently animated explanation that Leia "died on the way back to her home planet".

ThePixelatedGenocide
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » November 7th, 2018, 6:02 am

Just because you thought Finn's little sled was going to totally make it to the shielded weapon without melting in the process, doesn't mean the entire resistance is oblivious to what was happening. There's a reason his suicide run was called off.

And there's a reason why Rose caught up to him so easily.

All that your post proves is that there's a good reason why Hollywood usually overexplains things for the audience.

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ptdebate
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby ptdebate » November 7th, 2018, 11:46 am

Lay off the Cinema Sins, man. TLJ was brilliant. :D

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DaHeckIzDat
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby DaHeckIzDat » November 7th, 2018, 11:59 am

ThePixelatedGenocide wrote:Just because you thought Finn's little sled was going to totally make it to the shielded weapon without melting in the process, doesn't mean the entire resistance is oblivious to what was happening. There's a reason his suicide run was called off.

And there's a reason why Rose caught up to him so easily.

All that your post proves is that there's a good reason why Hollywood usually overexplains things for the audience.


Yeah, the explanation is "Nothing matters more than personal feelings in a war for galactic freedom." Or maybe "I defied your expectations, and that automatically makes me a genius."

What indication did we have that Finn wouldn't make it? Yeah, his ship was taking damage, but nothing said that it was going to fall apart before he reached the laser. Let me turn it around on you, just because you thought it wasn't going to happen doesn't justify Rose's idiocy.

And the reason why she caught up to him was "because Rian Johnson wanted more drama."

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DaHeckIzDat
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby DaHeckIzDat » November 7th, 2018, 12:02 pm

ptdebate wrote:Lay off the Cinema Sins, man. TLJ was brilliant. :D


That isn't CinemaSins. That's the majority of the fans' opinion. TLJ was objectively badly written. Good special effects, well acted (with the script they were given), but objectively, unarguably, badly written. I won't explain why because I'd be repeating what I've already said. You're in the vast minority here. Enjoy it if you want, but don't say it was good. I like McDonald's, but I'm not going to tell people it's a five star, nutritious meal to justify it.

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Stalvern
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby Stalvern » November 7th, 2018, 12:27 pm

ThePixelatedGenocide wrote:Just because you thought Finn's little sled was going to totally make it to the shielded weapon without melting in the process, doesn't mean the entire resistance is oblivious to what was happening. There's a reason his suicide run was called off.

Not even Finn thought he was going to make it without melting. The attack was called off because he wasn't going to be able to take out the cannon with his weapons, but he was desperate enough at the end to fly his whole ship into it even as it was disintegrating around him. He was about a second away from impact when Rose hit him. DaHeckIzDat is right.

ThePixelatedGenocide
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » November 7th, 2018, 8:47 pm

It was going slow as hell, and the metal was soft and squishy. There was push back from the beam itself.

Mind explaining the physics of how that was going to take out the weapon?

Also, feel free to add all the "objective" bad writing you've found. My favorites include "I don't understand physics: How do the bombs keep falling when they hit the vacuum of space above a planet?" and "I don't understand psychology: Why would my Luke Skywalker ever think bad thoughts? Once you stop trying to kill your dad, you're immune to bad thoughts forever."

Which is a close relation to:

"Why would Luke Skywalker throw away the weapon his dad, a slave exploited by the Jedi, used to kill all those Jedi kids? He should respect it!"

But honorable mention goes to:

"I don't understand how the force works in the movies: Why is faith and an open mind more important than Pokemon style grinding?" Because it's always a quick jump from there to "I don't understand ethics: How are Rey's flight or fight issues a character flaw? Attacking Finn? Running away from a force vision? Jumping Luke from behind? She seems perfect to me."

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DaHeckIzDat
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby DaHeckIzDat » November 8th, 2018, 12:03 am

ThePixelatedGenocide wrote:It was going slow as hell, and the metal was soft and squishy. There was push back from the beam itself.

Mind explaining the physics of how that was going to take out the weapon?

Also, feel free to add all the "objective" bad writing you've found. My favorites include "I don't understand physics: How do the bombs keep falling when they hit the vacuum of space above a planet?" and "I don't understand psychology: Why would my Luke Skywalker ever think bad thoughts? Once you stop trying to kill your dad, you're immune to bad thoughts forever."

Which is a close relation to:

"Why would Luke Skywalker throw away the weapon his dad, a slave exploited by the Jedi, used to kill all those Jedi kids? He should respect it!"

But honorable mention goes to:

"I don't understand how the force works in the movies: Why is faith and an open mind more important than Pokemon style grinding?" Because it's always a quick jump from there to "I don't understand ethics: How are Rey's flight or fight issues a character flaw? Attacking Finn? Running away from a force vision? Jumping Luke from behind? She seems perfect to me."


Seriously? You're actually going to make me repeat everything I've already said earlier in the thread? *sigh* Fine, but let's address your first issue first. No, the speeder was not going slow. Look at any of the shots of it, and it's going pretty dang fast. Maybe there was SOME push back, but if you actually watch the movie you know that it wasn't anywhere close to enough to stop the speeder. And he was, what, twenty feet away when he crashed? Yeah, clearly the last two seconds it would have taken him to get there were the MAGICAL two seconds that would make the entire rest of his ship disappear.

How would it NOT take out the weapon? Imagine driving a truck into a jet turbine. Doesn't matter how big the turbine is or how slow the truck's going, both of them are still going to go boom.

Now, for the objectively bad writing (again)...

1. "Your mom" jokes right off the bat. Yeah, that doesn't kill the mood at all, does it? Totally doesn't make the villains who you're supposed to believe are a threat look as threatening as cranky two year olds.

2. Rose. Literally everything about Rose. Take every scene she's in out of the movie, and what do you lose? Absolutely nothing. She accomplishes nothing, she changes nothing, everything she does fails and leaves the movie exactly where it would have been if she'd done nothing at all. The casino scene? Pointless. Picking up the other hacker? Pointless. Them getting caught and duking it out with Phasma? Pointless, and they killed off one of the coolest villains in the process. What does she do? She pushes the director's "rich people are bad" agenda. Bad character, bad, bad, bad writing.

3. What reason did Holdo have to not explain her plan? If not to Poe, then why not to the rest of the crew? Everyone is scared, close to panicking, and she just decides to keep her plan her little secret. Of course they're going to mutiny, and it's all her fault! But the movie expects us to see all this incompetence and think "Wow, what a strategic genius!" And what was her ultimate plan? To run to a barren planet, hole up inside a fort with only one exit and just wait to die. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

4. It's not a bad thing that Luke became disillusioned, the problem is that it happened in a very un-Luke-ish way. This is the guy who refused to kill the worst mass murderer the galaxy has ever known because of the very small, microscopic chance that he might turn good again in the end. But no, forget that, I totally believe that he'd consider straight up murdering his sleeping nephew because of a vision, even getting out his lightsaber.

5. Leia suddenly getting Force powers. Yes, it was hinted at that she was Force sensitive before, but you can't go from hints some thing like to "survives an explosion plus several minutes of floating in space, and then Mary Poppins-ing her way back to the ship." And it was such an easy fix, too. Just have her Force float a cup of tea to her hand or something, and when asked where she learned that, say "Oh, Luke taught me that before he vanished." And speaking of...

6. Why the hell did Luke leave a map to himself if he never wanted to be found? Was it so he could give people the middle finger when they showed up to ask for help?

7. Let's talk about Snoke. Who was he? How did he come to be so powerful? Where and how did he found the first order? If you ask Rian Johnson, he'll tell you none of it matters and you're an idiot for asking. WRONG. You do not build a bad guy up like they did in the first movie, only to kill him off with no explanation. Secondly, he's a clear copy of Palpetine. It'd be like if they made a sequel trilogy the Lord of the Rings where The Dark Lord Moron raises an orc army from the top of a tower in Mordor and can only be killed if the Other One Ring is to be cast into the fires of Mt. Doom. Would you be okay with that? And don't say that killing him off was a "plot twist." A plot twist is supposed to change the story in an unexpected way. Snoke was barely in the movies, and Kylo Ren was for all intents and purposes the main villain. Kylo killing him changed nothing, it just made things go back to the way they were before. Bad, lazy writing.

8. Btw, if Snoke was so uber mega powerful that he can read Kylo's mind, how is it possible that he didn't know Kylo was about to kill him? Sure, he was about to do the same thing to Rey, but he is inside his brain! His true intentions shouldn't be hidden from him like that!

9. Luke hologram-ing himself to the final battle... because that's what we all want to see. The big, legendary hero PRETENDING to fight, and then dying anyway. What did he accomplish? Buying people some time? If he'd been there for real, he could have kicked Kylo's butt and ended the whole thing right there. But no, it's so much better to put on a useless light show (using powers that nobody has ever seen before... again) and let the conflict continue to fester, more innocent people dying, etc. Hey, though, let me guess... "It doesn't have to make sense, it subverted your expectations again!"

10. Rose sabotaging Finn. Not gonna repeat what I said up above, but Rose is a traitor now. 90% of the resistance is dead.Half of it is Holdo's fault, and the other half is Rose's. Yay for strong female leads, ammirite?

11. Rey is a Mary Sue. She learns complicated Jedi tricks without any training, is more powerful than Luke by the end of the second movie, never struggles with anything, is immediately let into everyone's inner circles despite barely knowing her, knows more about the Falcon than Han does after being on it a total of five minutes, and is always right and morally superior to everyone around her.

Those are the issues I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I can remember even more if I thought about it a little.

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Stalvern
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Re: Star wars the last jedi spoilers ahead.

Postby Stalvern » November 8th, 2018, 2:07 am

ThePixelatedGenocide wrote:It was going slow as hell, and the metal was soft and squishy. There was push back from the beam itself.

Mind explaining the physics of how that was going to take out the weapon?

Dude, I just rewatched the scene before posting. He may have been going "slow" for Star Wars, accentuated by the wide camera angles and the long distance he was traveling, but it was still close to a hundred miles an hour – and he was this close to entry. He couldn't have come to a stop before impact on his own even if he had slammed on his brakes and even if he had been going half as fast. And please explain the "physics" of how several tons of metal stops being metal once it gets too hot, or why his fuel tank wouldn't explode like a bomb when he went in.


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