Joker Movie Sucks

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BanjoPickles
Posts: 275
Joined: June 18th, 2015, 3:05 pm

Re: Joker Movie Sucks

Postby BanjoPickles » April 7th, 2020, 9:20 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:This raises an interesting point. How do you rate movies?

I tend to rate them as I do video games. Was it fun to watch? Was I entertained? Artistic merit could be a factor but it's wouldn't be an overriding factor.

In this case, I just sort of cringed through the whole thing, waiting for it to end. Then again, I also dislike reality shows because I don't like to see people in awkward predicaments. So maybe it's just me.

I have seen sad movies that I really liked. Pan's Labyrinth comes to mind.


That's a good question. I'm weird when it comes to movies. I absolutely HATE movies based off of comic books. In fact, I have a list of things that I hate in movies:

1). An obscene amount of digital effects. This may be a big reason why I hate movies based off of comic books. I miss the days of practical effects, where the effect was a magic trick pulled off by masters of their craft (Stan Winston, Tom Savini). I'm not wowed by digital effects, and I haven't been for a very long time. Whenever I see them, I usually think to myself "well, that looks expensive....and fake."

2). Movies that shamelessly ape other movies and pass themselves off as being art. Joker is guilty of this.

3). Movies whose sole aim is to make me sick to my stomach. I love slasher flicks, and horror movies, but I absolutely hated what movies like Saw did for the industry.

4). Remakes.

5). Endless sequels. My favorite sequel of all time is Terminator 2. They have spent thirty years trying to figure out how to do a sequel that comes close to it, which resulted in them essentially aping that movie's formula three different times (Salvation came closest to being its own thing).

6). Cynical cash grabs. I have no desire to watch video game movies for this reason.

This is how I rate the movies I enjoy/hate: was I entertained? Is the movie insulting my intelligence? Did the ending waste two hours of my time by setting things up for an unnecessary sequel? Does this seem like a movie that was created out of passion, or based on committee?

I'm weird with movies, though. I prefer well-written dramas and smart comedies to pretty much anything else. I like good characters, writing that keeps me engaged, and stories that I can relate to.

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velcrozombie
Posts: 432
Joined: April 12th, 2015, 3:37 pm

Re: Joker Movie Sucks

Postby velcrozombie » April 7th, 2020, 11:54 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:This raises an interesting point. How do you rate movies?

I tend to rate them as I do video games. Was it fun to watch? Was I entertained? Artistic merit could be a factor but it's wouldn't be an overriding factor.

In this case, I just sort of cringed through the whole thing, waiting for it to end. Then again, I also dislike reality shows because I don't like to see people in awkward predicaments. So maybe it's just me.

I have seen sad movies that I really liked. Pan's Labyrinth comes to mind.


I rate a film (and other media in general) by whether I felt the experience wasted my time or if I felt like I gained anything from watching it. That's vague, but for films it means I'm going to rate, say, a failed experiment or a genuinely terrible film over something that's "fine" or "decent". I watched Fritz the Cat by Ralph Bakshi recently and wasn't a great film, but it had historical value (the first X-rated animated film and the most successful independent animated film ever made), had some animation techniques I'd never seen before and I enjoyed it when I put myself in the shoes of a younger kid seeing it nearly 50 years ago. I remember renting Liquid Sky over 20 years ago and not really liking it very much and even being bored at times, but it was so damn weird that scenes and lines of dialogue still come back to me - I should see if it's still on Shudder.

For me fun isn't necessarily something I'm consciously looking for, because for whatever reason I can't choose to have fun - it just happens if I'm lucky and any prospects of having fun disappear the instance I try to manufacture the circumstances. Mad Max: Fury Road was one of the rare movies that I had great fun while watching and I think part of that was the fact that I went in with high but not outrageous expectations - there was enough room there for me to be surprised. I guess I'd rate surprise above fun - not surprise in a dumb twist ending sort of way, but that the film is taking me somewhere I hadn't expected and against all odds it's keeping itself just grounded enough in the reality it has constructed that it's pulling it off. Brazil by Terry Gilliam is a good example of a film that managed this, Dr. Strangelove by Stanley Kubrick is another. A more recent one for me was watching Return of the Living Dead (1985) for the first time.

Rather than fun, I want whatever I'm engaging with to keep me involved (which, again, is hard to define). I like survival horror and I wouldn't characterize the genre as being fun, but it works because it keeps me asking questions about the narrative ("What is causing this horrible thing to happen?" or "Who's going to survive?") and about my own ability to juggle my health and resources ("Do I have enough ammo for the boss?", "Can I sneak around this monster safely?" or "How long until I find another ink ribbon?") and even the environments and creatures (all the times I stared at a new monster in Silent Hill and just wondered "What is this? How does it even function?"). I went back to Resident Evil: Director's Cut for the PS1 and I'm too stressed out by it to have what I'd call fun, but it's compelling and I keep coming back to it. Watching Joker nearly made me leave the theater in the early going from the shared anxiety I felt for the character but I stuck with it and would consider it a good but flawed film (as someone who has seen Taxi Driver and King of Comedy, it's difficult to praise a film too highly when it borrows liberally from two superior films, although I feel it still has a fair amount to recommend in it's own right and does push the comic-book film in a new direction that may allow some riskier low-budget stuff a chance).

ThePixelatedGenocide
Posts: 412
Joined: April 29th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Re: Joker Movie Sucks

Postby ThePixelatedGenocide » April 8th, 2020, 10:31 am

I'm torn on this movie. It's giving itself a free pass on making sense by abusing the fact its got an unreliable narrator - seriously, a clown kills Wayne's employees, and a clown is stalking Wayne's home, and nobody makes a connection? That's not something that makes sense even in Joker's fantasy life.

And it doesn't help that the director is claiming everyone's afraid to be offensive in a time when Family Guy and South Park are mainstream. Half the world's leaders are being as offensive as possible, and punching down on the vulnerable, while claiming to be the underdog. He's making excuses for the failure of his Hangover sequels, while pandering to the persecution fantasies of internet trolls.

And yeah, it's borrowing so much that it's theft.

But, at the same time, there's some genuine empathy leaking through. How many blockbuster comic book movies have anything to say about the struggles of the mental health system? And what better place to say those things than in the Batman franchise, where even the hero is insane?

And some of the acting is stunning.

This movie has a lot of bad intentions, but it might actually do some good. Can you separate one from the other? That's really up to everyone to decide for themselves.

Tron
Posts: 569
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 8:02 pm

Re: Joker Movie Sucks

Postby Tron » April 8th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Not sure what to think of the Critic. I haven’t seen the movie yet, but if he doesn’t like it I assume I won’t like it. Then he says he doesn’t like Taxi Driver, which I loved, so the Critic must not appreciate AWESOME movies, but then he goes on to say he liked Pans Labryinth which I also loved. So do I believe the Critic has good taste with movies or not? Oh wait! I just remembered something. The Critic bad mouthed Tron a long time ago so that means the Critic doesn’t know squat about good movies. The Joker movie must be awesome.


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