I do want more diversity in my games, be it gender, race, age, sexual preference, religion, what have you...but I don't want it to be forced or mandated or - worse - done out of a misplaced sense of guilt. I also don't think that these aspects need to be shoehorned into a game without cause - what difference would it make to a Mario game if they suddenly decided to make Luigi gay? I just care about whether he can run fast and jump high. In general Nintendo games are made with a sensibility that usually makes these social distinctions less important (even though I do love that there is a 6' 3" woman inside of the battle suit in the Metroid games). On the other hand (I haven't played it yet so this is second-hand information), a game like Gone Home works the way it does in part because of the gender and sexual identity of its main character.
This is where I part with Segatarious: I don't want forced diversity in a game because I do think games can be (and already are) Art, and that is why I only want the creators of the game to be in charge of the social aspects of their characters. Art shouldn't have to explain itself. Art shouldn't have to have focus groups determining whether it's lead character should be wearing a backwards baseball cap to appeal to young boys, or be told that it can't have it's female main character kiss a male character because it would alienate any men who would be playing the game (this actually happened with the recent Capcom game Remember Me).
Nintendo needs Diversity?
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pacguy191
- Posts: 201
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Nintendo needs Diversity?
[QUOTE=Vexer]pacguy-That's a really lazy cop-out answer if you ask me, you can't just learn that sort of thing overnight, it's not nearly as simple as you make it sound, and anyways that's not the point at all, it has nothing to with "complaining" being more "convenient", it's something that a lot of people feels needs to be addressed, and they do make some very valid points that should automatically be dismissed as "complaints".[/QUOTE]
If you don't like something, you should take steps to change it. If these people really think there's a lack of diversity in games (which I don't really care if there is, games should be about an experience, not social justice) then how come they don't come up with their own diverse casts and make games with them?
Saying that this isn't simple with the advent of the internet is just wrong. I never said it doesn't take time. It's just not ridiculously hard.
Yes, not every valid point is a complaint. But if all you do is complain about how racist and sexist an industry is without ever making steps to change it, you just like complaining. It's not like there are no ways to ever enter the gaming industry with your own game, it's not like we're simply a public and they're simply devs. In today's age, there's a huge overlap. If you think your ideas are underrepresented, make a game and show us how brilliant you are.
If you don't like something, you should take steps to change it. If these people really think there's a lack of diversity in games (which I don't really care if there is, games should be about an experience, not social justice) then how come they don't come up with their own diverse casts and make games with them?
Saying that this isn't simple with the advent of the internet is just wrong. I never said it doesn't take time. It's just not ridiculously hard.
Yes, not every valid point is a complaint. But if all you do is complain about how racist and sexist an industry is without ever making steps to change it, you just like complaining. It's not like there are no ways to ever enter the gaming industry with your own game, it's not like we're simply a public and they're simply devs. In today's age, there's a huge overlap. If you think your ideas are underrepresented, make a game and show us how brilliant you are.
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Segatarious1
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Nintendo needs Diversity?
[QUOTE=velcrozombie]
This is where I part with Segatarious: I don't want forced diversity in a game because I do think games can be (and already are) Art, and that is why I only want the creators of the game to be in charge of the social aspects of their characters. Art shouldn't have to explain itself. Art shouldn't have to have focus groups determining whether it's lead character should be wearing a backwards baseball cap to appeal to young boys, or be told that it can't have it's female main character kiss a male character because it would alienate any men who would be playing the game (this actually happened with the recent Capcom game Remember Me).[/QUOTE]
That is all gaming is though - focus groups.
No doubt about it, if any game tries to 'break ground' away from the well worn staple of fanboy violence, it does so in the most obvious ways possible, and still keeps the fanboy violence, so the game sells.
Let's face it, gaming has very little diversity in GAME PLAY, when it come right down to it, tons of clone games with near identical set ups in every genre. There is no point or victory in changing the gender or skin color of a character, it has all the meaning of the original Mario Brothers palate swap to play as Luigi. Unless it affects game play in some meaningful manner, it is pointless. And that can be done by anything, like Kirby's power ups, instead of changing Kirby's color from pink to black.
Its like celebrating when a women or a supposed 'minority' climbs (or is appointed) to the top of a company and is a corporate CEO. So what? They just sit at the head of the relentless, profit driven machinery, that will give lip service to whatever is easy and popular to give lip service to. And the bottom line is all that really is going to matter, obviously.
EA was recently given an award from some group for promoting diversity in the work place or some such - that's nice - unless you are literally one of 1000's of their diverse employees that were laid off in the last 5 years as the company tries to maximize profits - even as their top tier management rake in the cash and rig their golden parachutes. What a victory for the people! 'Management got rich while the company struggled because of their decisions, meanwhile, we got lip service, and then laid off!'
This is where I part with Segatarious: I don't want forced diversity in a game because I do think games can be (and already are) Art, and that is why I only want the creators of the game to be in charge of the social aspects of their characters. Art shouldn't have to explain itself. Art shouldn't have to have focus groups determining whether it's lead character should be wearing a backwards baseball cap to appeal to young boys, or be told that it can't have it's female main character kiss a male character because it would alienate any men who would be playing the game (this actually happened with the recent Capcom game Remember Me).[/QUOTE]
That is all gaming is though - focus groups.
No doubt about it, if any game tries to 'break ground' away from the well worn staple of fanboy violence, it does so in the most obvious ways possible, and still keeps the fanboy violence, so the game sells.
Let's face it, gaming has very little diversity in GAME PLAY, when it come right down to it, tons of clone games with near identical set ups in every genre. There is no point or victory in changing the gender or skin color of a character, it has all the meaning of the original Mario Brothers palate swap to play as Luigi. Unless it affects game play in some meaningful manner, it is pointless. And that can be done by anything, like Kirby's power ups, instead of changing Kirby's color from pink to black.
Its like celebrating when a women or a supposed 'minority' climbs (or is appointed) to the top of a company and is a corporate CEO. So what? They just sit at the head of the relentless, profit driven machinery, that will give lip service to whatever is easy and popular to give lip service to. And the bottom line is all that really is going to matter, obviously.
EA was recently given an award from some group for promoting diversity in the work place or some such - that's nice - unless you are literally one of 1000's of their diverse employees that were laid off in the last 5 years as the company tries to maximize profits - even as their top tier management rake in the cash and rig their golden parachutes. What a victory for the people! 'Management got rich while the company struggled because of their decisions, meanwhile, we got lip service, and then laid off!'
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HardcoreSadism1
- Posts: 526
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Nintendo needs Diversity?
I didn't know this was Pacguy's thread, why don't you make your own thread?
Steer, you're no better than any other lapdog enthusiast who digs holes to China just to defend their misdirected loyalty.
Steer, you're no better than any other lapdog enthusiast who digs holes to China just to defend their misdirected loyalty.
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pacguy191
- Posts: 201
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Nintendo needs Diversity?
[QUOTE=HardcoreSadism]I didn't know this was Pacguy's thread, why don't you make your own thread? [/QUOTE]
???
I think you missed my point. Try reading.
???
I think you missed my point. Try reading.
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Atarifever1
- Posts: 3892
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Nintendo needs Diversity?
Wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What about these?
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa117/rikufaxel/25034f8c_zps4cd8f514.png
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa117/rikufaxel/25034f8c_zps4cd8f514.png
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HardcoreSadism1
- Posts: 526
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Nintendo needs Diversity?
I don't even understand why political correction (awkward way of saying PC but eh) is even being discussed here...
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N64Dude1
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Nintendo needs Diversity?
I don't see the problem if the characters are already nicely related to and not alienating audiences, that said, it would be interesting to see some dabbling here and there and is a little jarring if you think about it.
But it should come naturally and fit the character, and the game itself should NOT be about the fact the character is a minority but rather should be a fun game that happens to be about a minority.
@mozart: Sarcastic you may have been there,but that's a damn good point.
What's more,that would be more important and effective anyway.
But it should come naturally and fit the character, and the game itself should NOT be about the fact the character is a minority but rather should be a fun game that happens to be about a minority.
@mozart: Sarcastic you may have been there,but that's a damn good point.
What's more,that would be more important and effective anyway.
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