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POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
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Segatarious1
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
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Atarifever1
- Posts: 3892
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
[QUOTE=PSX] The reason an adult man like yourself (and myself, and everyone else here) can maybe, possibly, have a video game discussion in public without being considered an immature nerdy Star Trek-loving, comic book-reading manchild loser is thanks to the Sony Playstation. .[/QUOTE]
Not that I am agreeing with Segatarious' main point, but I disagree with this. The reason we can do that is because we are older than we were. That is it. Full stop. We grew up with games, and now, along with all kinds of other people, we still play them. It is the same reason people who grew up with comic books can still talk about Spiderman, because a bunch of people who also liked Spiderman made a bunch of movies about him.
Do you know how far out on a limb people had to go to push the original Superman? The original Star Wars? Listen to a director commentary sometime. The main guy who pushed Superman through had to explain to some people at the studio who Superman even was! Now, those things are just alright. Average people know who Bilbo freaking Baggins is these days.
We can still feel like normal people who like games because a whole lot of other normal people grew up liking games too. It normalized on its own.
Its like saying we owe the invention of the cassette tape for the widespread acceptance of rock and roll. No. People whio liked rock and roll just got older.
Not that I am agreeing with Segatarious' main point, but I disagree with this. The reason we can do that is because we are older than we were. That is it. Full stop. We grew up with games, and now, along with all kinds of other people, we still play them. It is the same reason people who grew up with comic books can still talk about Spiderman, because a bunch of people who also liked Spiderman made a bunch of movies about him.
Do you know how far out on a limb people had to go to push the original Superman? The original Star Wars? Listen to a director commentary sometime. The main guy who pushed Superman through had to explain to some people at the studio who Superman even was! Now, those things are just alright. Average people know who Bilbo freaking Baggins is these days.
We can still feel like normal people who like games because a whole lot of other normal people grew up liking games too. It normalized on its own.
Its like saying we owe the invention of the cassette tape for the widespread acceptance of rock and roll. No. People whio liked rock and roll just got older.
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ptdebate1
- Posts: 909
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
[QUOTE=LoganRuckman]2nd Gen- Atari 2600
3rd Gen- NES
4th Gen- SNES
5th Gen- N64
6th Gen- GameCube
7th Gen- DS[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, what are the reasons for your choices? I'm genuinely interested. DS seems like an interesting choice for 7 (not saying it's wrong).
3rd Gen- NES
4th Gen- SNES
5th Gen- N64
6th Gen- GameCube
7th Gen- DS[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, what are the reasons for your choices? I'm genuinely interested. DS seems like an interesting choice for 7 (not saying it's wrong).
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ptdebate1
- Posts: 909
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
So essentially, PS2 and NES are winning the race. Sad coincidence that those consoles are two of the WORST for holding up over time. ![[frown]](/images/boards/smilies/frown.gif "Frown - :(")
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scotland171
- Posts: 816
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
Atarifever, I had a similar view but for a different reason. You make a nice point that simply by having a critical mass of adults interested it gains some level of social acceptance. One day its a shuffleboard on ice, then its olympic curling. One day Spiderman is just for nerdy grownups living in their parents basement to summer blockbuster.
Funny about the 70s Superman, as the character had been a staple of 50s TV in a very American Way that late 70s post hippie America wanted so badly. Everyone knew George Reeve and his tragedy...he had even been on I Love Lucy as Superman. There was a successful radio and very popular newspaper strip and the iconic comics. Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen and Daily Planet and Kryptonite....Great Ceasars Ghost they were all part of American culture like Mickey Mouse or Davy Crockett. Superman was and is one of the most well known fictional people ever. I would think the hard part was not getting a green light but avoiding falling into camp like Batmania in the 60s. They needed to sell an earnest super flying boyscout in tights from mars to a very cynical post watergate America. And they did.
Funny about the 70s Superman, as the character had been a staple of 50s TV in a very American Way that late 70s post hippie America wanted so badly. Everyone knew George Reeve and his tragedy...he had even been on I Love Lucy as Superman. There was a successful radio and very popular newspaper strip and the iconic comics. Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen and Daily Planet and Kryptonite....Great Ceasars Ghost they were all part of American culture like Mickey Mouse or Davy Crockett. Superman was and is one of the most well known fictional people ever. I would think the hard part was not getting a green light but avoiding falling into camp like Batmania in the 60s. They needed to sell an earnest super flying boyscout in tights from mars to a very cynical post watergate America. And they did.
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N64Dude1
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
@ptdebate: Xbox 360 and the RROD would like to say hi
And anyway
PONG wins the first no duh
The 2nd goes to 2600
The 3rd goes to the NES
The 4th goes to the SNES and Game Boy
The 5th goes to the N64
The 6th goes to the Dreamcast and Game Boy Advance
The 7th goes to the DS (Would've gone to the 360 or Wii but those two lacked grip on certain genres)
And anyway
PONG wins the first no duh
The 2nd goes to 2600
The 3rd goes to the NES
The 4th goes to the SNES and Game Boy
The 5th goes to the N64
The 6th goes to the Dreamcast and Game Boy Advance
The 7th goes to the DS (Would've gone to the 360 or Wii but those two lacked grip on certain genres)
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PSX1
- Posts: 388
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
[QUOTE=Atarifever][QUOTE=PSX] The reason an adult man like yourself (and myself, and everyone else here) can maybe, possibly, have a video game discussion in public without being considered an immature nerdy Star Trek-loving, comic book-reading manchild loser is thanks to the Sony Playstation. .[/QUOTE]
Not that I am agreeing with Segatarious' main point, but I disagree with this. The reason we can do that is because we are older than we were. That is it. Full stop. We grew up with games, and now, along with all kinds of other people, we still play them. It is the same reason people who grew up with comic books can still talk about Spiderman, because a bunch of people who also liked Spiderman made a bunch of movies about him.
Do you know how far out on a limb people had to go to push the original Superman? The original Star Wars? Listen to a director commentary sometime. The main guy who pushed Superman through had to explain to some people at the studio who Superman even was! Now, those things are just alright. Average people know who Bilbo freaking Baggins is these days.
We can still feel like normal people who like games because a whole lot of other normal people grew up liking games too. It normalized on its own.
Its like saying we owe the invention of the cassette tape for the widespread acceptance of rock and roll. No. People whio liked rock and roll just got older. [/QUOTE]
I agree that that's part of it -- but, only part of it. Not "full stop", the only reason. Sure, many of today's adults grew up playing video games, so they are more accepting of people who play them. It is different than in, say, 1990, when adults were more likely to view games as strictly "kids' stuff" because they didn't grow up with it or understand it. So, yes, that's part of it. But the other part is marketing of consoles to adults and the proliferation of games targeted and marketed to adults. The Sony Playstation was the first console that was actively marketed to the 18-25 crowd, while all consoles before it almost exclusively targeted youth and teenagers. As Scotland pointed out, the PC was a big contributor too.
Before going further, though, let me take a step back. Although video games are more accepted today, there is definitely still a stigma with adults playing them. Video games are not "cool". It's not a completely accepted adult hobby like sports or working on cars. But, point is, it's a lot more accepted than it was in 1995. People don't think it's weird if a 25 year old guy plays Call of Duty to unwind when he gets home from work. That trend has been building since the mid 90s. And I'd say PC games and the PS1 have as much to do with starting that trend as the "gamers growing up" theory.
Lastly, I think marketing is part of it because there are examples of things people grew up with that have not gained the same acceptance as video games. I agree that superhero movies are big right now, for all adults. But that doesn't mean that reading the comic books for those superheroes is now considered an "adult" hobbies. If two adult men are discussing how much they love the new X-Men movie, the general public might consider it normal; if two adult men are discussing how much they love X-Men comic books, probably not so much. That's because collecting and reading comic books has not elevated itself above the point of being considered strictly for kids and nerds. And those have been around longer than games. Another example, Magic the Gathering is a well known card game to the public, but most normal adults would consider it childish for adults to collect and play. Many of us grew up in the Pokemon card era, but again, most normal adults would consider that childish for adults to collect and play. So, to me, there's more to it than just people growing up with it. It's not an exact science, but those are my thoughts anyway.
Not that I am agreeing with Segatarious' main point, but I disagree with this. The reason we can do that is because we are older than we were. That is it. Full stop. We grew up with games, and now, along with all kinds of other people, we still play them. It is the same reason people who grew up with comic books can still talk about Spiderman, because a bunch of people who also liked Spiderman made a bunch of movies about him.
Do you know how far out on a limb people had to go to push the original Superman? The original Star Wars? Listen to a director commentary sometime. The main guy who pushed Superman through had to explain to some people at the studio who Superman even was! Now, those things are just alright. Average people know who Bilbo freaking Baggins is these days.
We can still feel like normal people who like games because a whole lot of other normal people grew up liking games too. It normalized on its own.
Its like saying we owe the invention of the cassette tape for the widespread acceptance of rock and roll. No. People whio liked rock and roll just got older. [/QUOTE]
I agree that that's part of it -- but, only part of it. Not "full stop", the only reason. Sure, many of today's adults grew up playing video games, so they are more accepting of people who play them. It is different than in, say, 1990, when adults were more likely to view games as strictly "kids' stuff" because they didn't grow up with it or understand it. So, yes, that's part of it. But the other part is marketing of consoles to adults and the proliferation of games targeted and marketed to adults. The Sony Playstation was the first console that was actively marketed to the 18-25 crowd, while all consoles before it almost exclusively targeted youth and teenagers. As Scotland pointed out, the PC was a big contributor too.
Before going further, though, let me take a step back. Although video games are more accepted today, there is definitely still a stigma with adults playing them. Video games are not "cool". It's not a completely accepted adult hobby like sports or working on cars. But, point is, it's a lot more accepted than it was in 1995. People don't think it's weird if a 25 year old guy plays Call of Duty to unwind when he gets home from work. That trend has been building since the mid 90s. And I'd say PC games and the PS1 have as much to do with starting that trend as the "gamers growing up" theory.
Lastly, I think marketing is part of it because there are examples of things people grew up with that have not gained the same acceptance as video games. I agree that superhero movies are big right now, for all adults. But that doesn't mean that reading the comic books for those superheroes is now considered an "adult" hobbies. If two adult men are discussing how much they love the new X-Men movie, the general public might consider it normal; if two adult men are discussing how much they love X-Men comic books, probably not so much. That's because collecting and reading comic books has not elevated itself above the point of being considered strictly for kids and nerds. And those have been around longer than games. Another example, Magic the Gathering is a well known card game to the public, but most normal adults would consider it childish for adults to collect and play. Many of us grew up in the Pokemon card era, but again, most normal adults would consider that childish for adults to collect and play. So, to me, there's more to it than just people growing up with it. It's not an exact science, but those are my thoughts anyway.
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Vexer1
- Posts: 883
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
Magic The Gathering is not considered "childish" by very many people, it's a very common fixture at my local college, and I haven't heard too many people nowadays call comic books childish either.
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Rev1
- Posts: 1777
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
I think by gamer's MTG isn't considered too childish, or at least those who have an understanding of the game. In fact, it is probably the most adult game of collectible card games. Still, to people who aren't aware of it, I'm sure they see someone buying card packs and deck boxes as pretty childish. Ironically, it is mostly adults who go to the mtg tournaments.
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PSX1
- Posts: 388
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
POLL: Objectively, what is the best console ever? And in each generation?
[QUOTE=Vexer]
Oh boy.. I'm not going too far down that road, Vexer; I try to avoid saying things that might offend someone. I will say this. I've accepted that collecting old video games might be looked at as immature by other adults. My girlfriend is all right with it now (even if she doesn't think it's the best use of money), but it definitely wasn't something I mentioned on our first date. "I collect old video games" isn't exactly a selling point if I'm trying for a second date. Likewise, if a 40 year old man says "My favorite hobby is playing Magic the Gathering", people are going to think it's a lot more immature than if he had said "I like rockclimbing on the weekends" or "I have a motorcycle I've been reconditioning lately".
Now, of course, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with people playing video games or Magic or reading comic books. My point is, simply, there is still a stigma attached to them by many other adults -- even though we've come a long way since the 80s and 90s. And, of the three, there is less stigma attached to video games, both because of marketing and the fact that they are more mainstream. Comic books and Magic are just two things that pop in my head, but there are a number of other "nerd" hobbies that have been around a long time but failed to become as generally-accepted as video games. Perhaps my mistake was using the word "childish", when I mean more along the lines of nerdy or immature.
Magic The Gathering is not considered "childish" by very many people, it's a very common fixture at my local college, and I haven't heard too many people nowadays call comic books childish either.
[/QUOTE]Oh boy.. I'm not going too far down that road, Vexer; I try to avoid saying things that might offend someone. I will say this. I've accepted that collecting old video games might be looked at as immature by other adults. My girlfriend is all right with it now (even if she doesn't think it's the best use of money), but it definitely wasn't something I mentioned on our first date. "I collect old video games" isn't exactly a selling point if I'm trying for a second date. Likewise, if a 40 year old man says "My favorite hobby is playing Magic the Gathering", people are going to think it's a lot more immature than if he had said "I like rockclimbing on the weekends" or "I have a motorcycle I've been reconditioning lately".
Now, of course, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with people playing video games or Magic or reading comic books. My point is, simply, there is still a stigma attached to them by many other adults -- even though we've come a long way since the 80s and 90s. And, of the three, there is less stigma attached to video games, both because of marketing and the fact that they are more mainstream. Comic books and Magic are just two things that pop in my head, but there are a number of other "nerd" hobbies that have been around a long time but failed to become as generally-accepted as video games. Perhaps my mistake was using the word "childish", when I mean more along the lines of nerdy or immature.
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