Yeah sure, we'll spin this off into its own topic.
I can't stand anything about Anita. She's like the archetype of modern day feminism, a professional victim going on about how much games are a tool of this thingy called the patriarchy. She's gone on record saying she doesn't actually like playing video games because shooting people is gross or something. Never mind the myriad of other genres, you know?
She's a professional victim, desperately trying to tell us why we're a bunch of disgusting sexists because Watchdogs has strippers without personalities. (Go to a strip club and try to talk to a dancer about her personality and watch how quickly you get thrown out) She skips over actual strong females in gaming like Samus and Alyx from Half-Life because actually reporting on the truth is inconvenient. And gamers are somehow trying to keep gaming a boy's club because a bunch of anons said they'd rape her, when that's to be expected from the faceless online.
It frustrates me how she got $150,000 for this project and fooled an industry into thinking she has a point when she doesn't. How have gamers as a whole rejected those like Jack Thompson who claim that games make people violent and yet accept people like Anita who say games make people sexist?
I'm not saying sexism in this industry doesn't exist, but all of her arguments are based in misrepresenting the games she's supposedly played. Almost none of what she says has any bearing in reality and it's silly. If you want to see women objectified, go to Saudi Arabia or something. They have actual issues.
Thoughts?
Feminist Frequency
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ptdebate1
- Posts: 909
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
Honestly, the only reason why gamerdom has spun out of control in its efforts to undermine Anita is because she's a woman talking about women's issues.
Anyone who says something along the lines of "But...but Alyx!" or "what about Lightning?" is missing the point, which is that videogames at large are a male-dominated industry that produces entertainment catering to the lowest common denominator of the masculine gender, which is, historically, exploitative of women.
"Hey, some Nazis were repentant! They didn't mean it, they were just executing orders out of fear for their lives and those of their family! Hitler was the real bad guy!"
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I was really disappointed to see you write "that's to be expected from the faceless online." Is it? Well, haven't we identified the problem then? The anonymous face of humanity happens to be a bigoted, sexist, racist, predominantly white and male one.
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You don't have to go to Saudi Arabia to find examples of women being oppressed.
For example, in 2007 in the United States, women earned only 77.5% of what men earned. Turns out that the highest percentage belongs to Latvia--not France, not England, and certainly not the United States.
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I honestly don't give a *you know what* about whether or not Anita has played all of the games she discusses. I don't need to eat a rotten egg to know that it's bad--the fact that it stinks is enough for me.
Anyone who says something along the lines of "But...but Alyx!" or "what about Lightning?" is missing the point, which is that videogames at large are a male-dominated industry that produces entertainment catering to the lowest common denominator of the masculine gender, which is, historically, exploitative of women.
"Hey, some Nazis were repentant! They didn't mean it, they were just executing orders out of fear for their lives and those of their family! Hitler was the real bad guy!"
---
I was really disappointed to see you write "that's to be expected from the faceless online." Is it? Well, haven't we identified the problem then? The anonymous face of humanity happens to be a bigoted, sexist, racist, predominantly white and male one.
---
You don't have to go to Saudi Arabia to find examples of women being oppressed.
For example, in 2007 in the United States, women earned only 77.5% of what men earned. Turns out that the highest percentage belongs to Latvia--not France, not England, and certainly not the United States.
---
I honestly don't give a *you know what* about whether or not Anita has played all of the games she discusses. I don't need to eat a rotten egg to know that it's bad--the fact that it stinks is enough for me.
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Vexer1
- Posts: 883
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
I definitely disagree here, I think Anita actually does make some pretty good points from time to time, and it really annoys me when people brush off women being stereotyped and then compare it to situations in third-world countries, which to me is basically saying that sexism in the western world dosen't matter when it absolutely does, that's just a really lazy response if you ask me.
She didn't "fool" anyone and I truly do not understand why people constantly compare her to Jack Thompson when the two are absolutely nothing alike, Thompson was a moronic opportunist who used every piss-poor excuse in the book to label video games as "murder simulators", Anita is simply arguing against stereotypes in gaming and not saying that video gamers turn people into killers unlike Thompson, they're two completely different things.
Anita is not a "professional victim" in the least, that's just complete and utter nonsense, she's not telling gamers they're all "disgusting" or "sexist", she's merely arguing that video gamers need better portrayals of women, and she's not entirely wrong there.
I sure hope you're not excusing all those rape and death threats, those were disgusting and abhorrent, it's crap like that that makes me truly ashamed to be a man. All those sick bastards did was prove that those stereotypes people have about male gamers being disgusting and sexist pigs were not entirely unfounded, saying it's "expected" is NOT an excuse, there's no "boys club" just actual decent human beings who actually know how to treat women with respect.
Frankly I don't ever know why you're randomly bringing her up now as it comes across to me as blatant flame bait.
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bronZfonZ1
- Posts: 58
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
The irony is that sexism is much more prominent in the game development industry than in the games themselves that those in the industry produce. Just look up the Twitter hashtag #1ReasonWhy. Unfortunately, it's typically legitimate movements like this that end up spawning "professional victims" like the one you mentioned.
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Oltobaz1
- Posts: 1605
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
The video is interesting. Whatever claims she's making, she appears to use stolen material, and she doesn't seem that big of a gamer. What's even more interesting, whoever made this vid felt he had an obligation to precise he's not encouraging the hatred and rape mail just cause he's criticizing Sarkeesian, wary as he may be of some people's 'Torquemadish'reaction. Wow. Is she some sort of icon people can't talk about/ criticize? I would say, no, she isn't, after all, that'd be sexist, right? Let's discuss Anita Sarkeesian some more, this thread is certainly worth having around, despite some of the heated reactions I've seen.
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pacguy191
- Posts: 201
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
[QUOTE=Vexer]Frankly I don't ever know why you're randomly bringing her up now as it comes across to me as blatant flame bait.[/QUOTE]
With the amount of threads you derailed, you don't get to say what's flamebait.
She came up in the unpopular opinions thread. Mods told us to spin that off into its own thread.
[QUOTE=ptdebate]Anyone who says something along the lines of "But...but Alyx!" or "what about Lightning?" is missing the point, which is that videogames at large are a male-dominated industry that produces entertainment catering to the lowest common denominator of the masculine gender, which is, historically, exploitative of women.[/QUOTE]
For AAA titles, yes. This isn't representative of the increasingly large indie market that'll eventually take over everything though. And really, if you don't want me mentioning Alyx, maybe Anita should stick to talking about the industry instead of the games.
[QUOTE=ptdebate]For example, in 2007 in the United States, women earned only 77.5% of what men earned.[/QUOTE]
Except no, I can't find anything that verifies this. I remember hearing someone talk about wage disparity by comparing Oracle's CEO with Apple's CEO, when the companies are completely different sizes and therefore make different amounts of money.
[QUOTE=bronZfonZ]The irony is that sexism is much more prominent in the game development industry than in the games themselves that those in the industry produce. Just look up the Twitter hashtag #1ReasonWhy. Unfortunately, it's typically legitimate movements like this that end up spawning "professional victims" like the one you mentioned.[/QUOTE]
If the industry is the problem, then why is Anita going after the games?
She wouldn't be a professional victim at all if she stuck to the actual sexism in the industry and celebrated when it goes right instead of complaining about how Mario and Hitman demeans women.
She's not interested in having a discussion, because if she was, ratings and comments would be enabled on these videos. No, she wants to spew dogma, and I can't stand for that. And no one seems to question how she can disable any discussion at all from going on and then claim she wants an open discussion.
I'd be saying the same thing if this was a guy, but men don't seem to make very good victims.
With the amount of threads you derailed, you don't get to say what's flamebait.
She came up in the unpopular opinions thread. Mods told us to spin that off into its own thread.
[QUOTE=ptdebate]Anyone who says something along the lines of "But...but Alyx!" or "what about Lightning?" is missing the point, which is that videogames at large are a male-dominated industry that produces entertainment catering to the lowest common denominator of the masculine gender, which is, historically, exploitative of women.[/QUOTE]
For AAA titles, yes. This isn't representative of the increasingly large indie market that'll eventually take over everything though. And really, if you don't want me mentioning Alyx, maybe Anita should stick to talking about the industry instead of the games.
[QUOTE=ptdebate]For example, in 2007 in the United States, women earned only 77.5% of what men earned.[/QUOTE]
Except no, I can't find anything that verifies this. I remember hearing someone talk about wage disparity by comparing Oracle's CEO with Apple's CEO, when the companies are completely different sizes and therefore make different amounts of money.
[QUOTE=bronZfonZ]The irony is that sexism is much more prominent in the game development industry than in the games themselves that those in the industry produce. Just look up the Twitter hashtag #1ReasonWhy. Unfortunately, it's typically legitimate movements like this that end up spawning "professional victims" like the one you mentioned.[/QUOTE]
If the industry is the problem, then why is Anita going after the games?
She wouldn't be a professional victim at all if she stuck to the actual sexism in the industry and celebrated when it goes right instead of complaining about how Mario and Hitman demeans women.
She's not interested in having a discussion, because if she was, ratings and comments would be enabled on these videos. No, she wants to spew dogma, and I can't stand for that. And no one seems to question how she can disable any discussion at all from going on and then claim she wants an open discussion.
I'd be saying the same thing if this was a guy, but men don't seem to make very good victims.
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Vexer1
- Posts: 883
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
pacguy19- You've derailed plenty of threads yourself, so if I think something is flame bait then I will say it, it's not up to you what I do or do not "get" to do, you're not a mod.
I believe she is interested in having a real discussion, but can't have one because all the sexist morons keep blindly attacking her for no good reasons, she's not spewing "dogma" in the least.
That video you linked was absolute drivel and nonsense, the person who made it is a complete and utter moron.
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Segatarious1
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
I am sick and tired of the feminist movement in game culture, and the racial angle, any and all of it.
Because there is nothing there. Games are in general, extremely stupid and immature. I could give countless exp, but there is no need. Nearly every premise in gaming is stupid and immature, and poorly thought out - because :
1/ Game play and story are oil and water
2/ Gaming is the bottom drawer of narrative talent - you only go there is you cannot make it anywhere else.
This post was edited
Reason - Going off topic with a page of story/narrative details
Because there is nothing there. Games are in general, extremely stupid and immature. I could give countless exp, but there is no need. Nearly every premise in gaming is stupid and immature, and poorly thought out - because :
1/ Game play and story are oil and water
2/ Gaming is the bottom drawer of narrative talent - you only go there is you cannot make it anywhere else.
This post was edited
Reason - Going off topic with a page of story/narrative details
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HardcoreSadism1
- Posts: 526
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
Social justice warriors are like gnomes, just throw a rock at them and they loudly break apart.
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ZetaX1
- Posts: 577
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Feminist Frequency
Who the hell is Anita Sarkeesian? Another random person putting their random opinion out on the YouTubes?
I swear, I've never heard of this person before, how did any of you even hear about her? Is she that "internet famous"? Seems like you'd have to go purposely looking for someone like this...
I swear, I've never heard of this person before, how did any of you even hear about her? Is she that "internet famous"? Seems like you'd have to go purposely looking for someone like this...
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