Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

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scotland
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby scotland » December 12th, 2015, 3:04 pm

Rev wrote:I just read the article- brilliant. His frustrations were dead on with how I've been feeling about Nintendo over the last year. I can't believe how they seem to make the same mistakes over and over and never seem to learn from them. The Wii U gamepad is a huge waste and if games were dedicated to it or used it intelligently that is one thing, but no games ever do. The console has very few games, no third party support, refuses to drop its price, and is a generation behind in power. Nintendo is maddening...


The article and the comments are good reads. Obviously many gamers have a fondness for Nintendo and want them to succeed.

'New ways to play' hardware innovation does seem like a will of the wisp that has led them to the swamps, but maybe combining portable and console hardware is an innovation winner. Since Nintendo has no significant competition in the portable market outside of mobile devices, thats an opportunity. If the portable library was also a console library, and if their was big value in a $300 bundle of a console and a portable, that might be enough. Standard controller, account based marketplace, etc.

NX17

Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby NX17 » December 12th, 2015, 5:39 pm

Great article. Like others said, I think this sums it up for me:

I’m angry because I’m watching Nintendo make the same mistakes over and over, missing opportunities that have been right in front of their face for years, so desperate to be “innovative” that they’ve lost every advantage they have in the market outside of their first-party games roster.


Sometimes I think the fanboy side of Nintendo fans think some goofy marketing deal or buying exclusives or companies would save Nintendo, but I don't think so.

What's annoying is Nintendo has a real competitive advantage if they want to take it. They could create a graphically competitive console if they cut out the gimmicks and did what they've done in the past. Make savvy business deals to create a well designed console and focus on making great games.

As powerful as Playstation and Xbox brands are, there's a lot of flaws that can be taken advantage of. They have giant bloated OS that reserve 1/4th of their RAM and aren't even used for games, but for streaming services and other things. Nintendo could create a small footprint Linux-esque OS and only need around 75% the RAM footprint to match competitors.

Playstation and XBox both charge money to use their online services. If Nintendo could at least make a semi-competitive online service, they could gain share in the future. If they want to go more progressive, potentially they could use a Linux backbone and possibly try to team with Valve in making a service that potentially has tons of indie and MMO games.

Finally, the storage issue could be tackled. Huge mechanical hard drives and Blu Ray disc drives are almost relics anymore. Nintendo can possibly capitalize by investing in SSD drives included and drop the disc drive and go for a digital/alternative storage future and save space and cost.

There's a lot of options out there, Nintendo just needs to be willing to move forward on it, look at potential partnerships with other companies who already do those things well, and build a smart streamlined piece of hardware. I really hope it gets turned around, because what's happened the last few months is pretty much rock bottom.

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Shapur
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby Shapur » December 12th, 2015, 6:51 pm

Atariboy wrote:I'd nitpick a bit and say that I feel like the DS is where this trend started. Shoehorning touch screen control into experiences where it was detrimental just for the sake of utilizing the feature and justifying the inclusion of it with the hardware, was the start of this attitude at Nintendo where they had to change how we play games every generation.

I'd also argue somewhat with him writing off the Wii U's gamepad. Sure, the console has never approached justifying the integration of the touch screen from the DS line. But while it's unfortunate that this major selling point has foundered, you're still left with a comfortable and surprisingly lightweight modern console controller here.

Virtually all of the hallmarks that we now expect are here. Dual analog sticks that are clickable for L3/R3 functions, the traditional d-pad, four face buttons, shoulder bumpers, and shoulder triggers are all present and everything is essentially oriented in a conventional manner. The only thing remotely unusual here is the lack of analog control with the triggers, which is hardly an issue given the absence of games like racing simcades that actually benefit from the feature.


You're exactly correct. The Wii is not the start but the follow up to the DS. DS vs PSP = last gen specs with new control scheme vs high end game machine. Wii vs PS3/360 exact same situation. Nintendo tried a threepeat with the Wii U and it bombed.

From my experience with the Wii U I actually agree the controllers not bad at all. The only problem with it is that it doesn't bring anything exciting to the table for the Wii crowd. Motion controls were intuitive for non-gamers but the Wii U pad is very much like a standard controller. If they had given the system some real specs they'd have at least been in a position to fall back on that when the controller didn't catch on, but they insist on comically outdated technology.

They should have doubled down on the motion controls. People liked those, and make it clear it's a new system. Wii 2 or Wii HD work perfectly. Bump the specs up, show its got HD and improve the motion controls so they don't suck as much. Can't imagine it would have sold less.

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VideoGameCritic
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby VideoGameCritic » December 12th, 2015, 8:23 pm

That's an interesting notion that Nintendo should have doubled down on the motion controls. It seems to me that technology had pretty much run its course. Sony and Microsoft tried to improve up the Wii with their Move and Kinect, but those failed.

Personally I think the whole Wii phenomenon was more due to novelty. Even the Wii games seemed to gradually move away from the motion controls over time.

While I think abandoning the motion controls was wise, I agree the Wii U didn't really bring much new to the table. The control pad is okay, but only one player can use it, and Nintendo is known for its multiplayer, family-friendly games.

Nintendo should do more with its classic properties. It's given us some great Mario World games, but where's Metroid? Where's F-Zero? Excite Bike? The list goes on.

Tron
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby Tron » December 12th, 2015, 11:58 pm

Thanks for providing the link Rev.

I think the article mentioned pretty much all my concerns minus the major issue that the Critic brought up; dormant game brands. Where's Advance Wars?

I also think Nintendo got lazy with their own product & have gotten even worse with the Wii U. Remember how much fun baseball was on the Wii? No not really, it wasn't that great and that's my point. They could of made some awesome career- focused sports games, but instead they thought the only people who buy Nintendo are 10 year-old kids that have to have wild & zany gameplay with Mario characters. Look at the Critic's review of Tennis on the Wii U. The golf game on the 3DS was so bad I practically gave it away.

Hardcore Sadism
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby Hardcore Sadism » December 13th, 2015, 4:18 am

VideoGameCritic wrote:Nintendo should do more with its classic properties. It's given us some great Mario World games, but where's Metroid? Where's F-Zero? Excite Bike? The list goes on.


Nintendo's PR Figureheads want to brag about their E3 performances instead of announcing (let alone developing) games that desperately need to be confirmed and slated for release.

Wouldn't be surprised if they brag about their recent, if not awkwardly timed "announcements" from earlier this month.

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Rev
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby Rev » December 14th, 2015, 1:13 pm

scotland wrote:'New ways to play' hardware innovation does seem like a will of the wisp that has led them to the swamps, but maybe combining portable and console hardware is an innovation winner. Since Nintendo has no significant competition in the portable market outside of mobile devices, thats an opportunity. If the portable library was also a console library, and if their was big value in a $300 bundle of a console and a portable, that might be enough. Standard controller, account based marketplace, etc.


If Nintendo is going to do quirky things they need to make sure they support them and deliver quality titles. Nintendo had quite a few franchises that would have done very well with the Wii U's gamepad controller- Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Pokemon RPGs, Zelda (in the works), and more.. Pretty much any game with item management or is an RPG could have done very well with the controller. The Wii U could have done so much better if they would have changed their marketing, pushed 3rd party support, and focused on solid online gameplay. They're the only console doing free online gaming yet their online system feels more like it belonged on the NGC then the Wii U (very outdated). There are so many ways that there console could have been more successful but they made a ton of bad decisions throughout the whole ordeal. Nintendo has always been stubborn but this time it bit them in the butt... I really hope the NX can fix these issues but I'm really cautious because Nintendo is likely to make a ton of bad decisions again... and now Nintendo is in a position where they need to make all the right decisions to do well. Hopefully we see good things from Nintendo next year...

NX17

Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby NX17 » December 14th, 2015, 2:18 pm

Rev wrote:If Nintendo is going to do quirky things they need to make sure they support them and deliver quality titles. Nintendo had quite a few franchises that would have done very well with the Wii U's gamepad controller- Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Pokemon RPGs, Zelda (in the works), and more.. Pretty much any game with item management or is an RPG could have done very well with the controller. The Wii U could have done so much better if they would have changed their marketing, pushed 3rd party support, and focused on solid online gameplay. They're the only console doing free online gaming yet their online system feels more like it belonged on the NGC then the Wii U (very outdated). There are so many ways that there console could have been more successful but they made a ton of bad decisions throughout the whole ordeal. Nintendo has always been stubborn but this time it bit them in the butt... I really hope the NX can fix these issues but I'm really cautious because Nintendo is likely to make a ton of bad decisions again... and now Nintendo is in a position where they need to make all the right decisions to do well. Hopefully we see good things from Nintendo next year...


I see a lot of reasoning that marketing was to blame, and a lot of people don't actually *know* what marketing means. I'm not an expert my any means, but it was my Minor for my Bachelors in Business Administration, so I understand that marketing is actually made up of four things: product, price, place, promotion. Practically everyone saying marketing thinks it means the promotion part of marketing, getting advertisements out, commercials, etc. That's literally only 1/4th of what marketing is, and I don't think that's close to the main reason why Wii U hasn't been a success. Putting out a ton of advertisements for a product the public isn't interested in doesn't change the results.

The main thing that held the Wii U back were two other parts of marketing: the product and the price. The product itself was bad design and not understanding the fundamentals that made the Wii a success in the first place. The Wii appealed to casuals not because of just a motion control gimmick, but because when you think about it, you're giving someone the controls that require little button input and being required to focus on pressing buttons and learning controls. They look at the screen and wave their arms, and roll a bowling ball. The Wii U was the EXACT OPPOSITE. It moved from focusing on screen to looking AT the controller itself to do things.

This idea of separate screens and touch screens have been around a long, long time - even by Nintendo itself with the DS and Gamecube connectivity, but no one has really implemented it in a way that's conclusive to a external display and handheld display at the same time. Why? Because frankly it's not intuitive to look at two screens at the same time. The best you can do is make realtime inventory management a little bit easier and design-related games like Mario Maker can use the touchpad to create levels. Outside of that, of all the games I've ever seen for it, there's nothing that's better than a controller. The idea that it needed to be used more sounds great on paper, until the realization is, there's no fundamental use for it. There's a reason why even though this stuff has been around longer and with better tech on iPads and PC's that you don't see any implementations of playing a PC game with a tablet. Nintendo didn't seem to get that.

Hardcore Sadism
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby Hardcore Sadism » December 14th, 2015, 10:42 pm

They really need to release the balls from between their legs come January.

Corporate figureheads hate it when they come in last during the holidays.

Sut
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Re: Worst Nintendo holiday lineup and pricing ever?

Postby Sut » December 15th, 2015, 2:37 am

NX17 wrote:until the realization is, there's no fundamental use for it.


This is a simple but great point, the gimmick this time had no appeal and more crushingly as NX17 states just no use.

I know Nintendo have an hardcore fanbase but I really think they are struggling to stay relevant. The mass market decides who lives and dies in this industry not the loyalists just ask Atari, Sega and Commodore.


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