The Video Game Critic

Picking up where the Retro VGS left off is the Coleco Chameleon:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/12/c ... e-console/

I think retro gamers should really get behind this thing. It looks pretty slick!

What I don't get are all the negative comments under the article. I mean, it's one thing to say you're not interested, but a lot of the posts are downright nasty - as if they are offended by the prospect of a cartridge-based system.

One poster implies cartridges are terrible because they take up space. Really? That's a good reason to hate them?

Personally I can think of many advantages.
- You actually OWN the game
- Cartridges are pretty much indestructible
- They look cool
- You can freely lend them out
- Fast start-up / zero load times (!)
- NO PATCHES
- Some carts offer ability to save IN cartridge (no external file system to manage)

There are probably more but you get the idea. The problem with Ars readers is that they tend to be bleeding edge - if it's not based on the latest technology they look down upon it. They don't consider there may be some advantages to the old way.

Your thoughts??

Depending on price and what comes out on the console I'll be picking this up. As long as the library is halfway decent then I'll be happy. I really want to support this console.

Well, after the crowdfunding disaster they went through, I can see why people would be apprehensive. It was an absolute fiasco. I would recommend watching Pat The NES Punk's two part CUPodcast episode on the Retro VGS on YouTube. Saying that, I hope this is successful, and the fact that it's a new Coleco system should guarantee it'll be far more successful this time around.

I definitely want it but I have a few reservations. They've got the price right and that is a step in the right direction.

I'm a little worried about the specs though. I was really hoping it could do early 3D games as well but that article doesn't really sound like it could even do PS1 games. 100 Megs per cartridge is also pretty small, and I don't get why there would be a max size with a modern hardware design. It should support up to GBs and GBs if somebody wanted to put a game out like that. Neo Geo games can exceed a 100 MB so even 16 bit games could use more.

Ultimately it needs games. I don't think it can get by with just having cartridge versions of downloadable indie games. Thats neat and has some appeal but I can't even see the die hards like myself paying 30 dollars for games that could be downloaded for under 10.

I think the article and comments are on target. The AtariAge community seems bearish or downright antagonistic now, the team behind it does not inspire confidence given the last year, and the competition for ways to enjoy simpler gaming is just too strong.

Dave, you are enjoying the GBA player on the Gamecube - there is a great retro system right there with solid titles for reasonable prices. Play the games at home, or use a DS lite or SP backlit and play them on the go. I think I would rather new homebrew or even commercial GBA games be created, or just make an HDMI GBA player thats not android emulation, cause once you go android, why not just go all in for a raspberry pi or other emulation vehicle.

I also did not like the Retro VGS team defending themselves as not cashing in on the retro community anymore than people making old school homebrews that play on old systems. I see homebrewers as hobbyists, and are really giving old systems some fresh air now and again. This is a commercial venture, not a hobby, and that may be part of the problem. We cut hobbyists slack on price and build quality, knowing we are getting a rare item hand made by a fellow hobbyist. A commercial venture is altogether different all around.

I really cannot imagine this doing well. If its simple enough to be value priced, it might make a nice conversation piece. I have money to spend on my hobby, and I do prefer simpler offline old skool gaming. I look forward to learning more, but it seems better to spend that money getting a Vectrex or some other system I have never played, or buying homebrews or other ways to enjoy and promote retro gaming. Which is also the attitude that brought me here, looking at your reviews for the TG-16.

I doubt even if Sega, instead of Coleco, backed this it would sell. Gamers today, even the majority of retro-dedicated sites like Atari Age, Digital Press, and Sega-16 are jaded about retro-throwback consoles.

I think the following reasons why they are jaded about this console:

-It would put too much pressure on developers making physical cartridges of their games.

-It's mainly just indie developers working on the games, so it would be more work and money spent to their liking; the majority of indie developers like developing games only as a challenging hobby, with money coming second.

-Gamers are actually against having no patches as when you get the cartridge, there's no going back to fix the issues, so you will forever have those bugs in place; to combat this complaint, I think games like Shovel Knight and Freedom Planet work in a physical cart form when the developers are completely finished with the project.

-All around negative stigma with how it's run; no working prototype during the Retro VGS Indiegogo (motherboard and all), Atari Jaguar shell (I find this to be a lame excuse, personally), off-brand Wii U Pro Controller that has generally negative reviews (link here: http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Controller-Wi ... controller), the Coleco name is just not what it was since the 1980s, and the overall lack of social management from the Retro VGS campaign.

-The majority of gamers from all circles see this as a simple nostalgia grab and nothing else.

-It's simply too niche in an already crowded console market to make bank; unproven business management, with negative stigma from the previous campaign coming back, and only niche games in the library, assuming it's the same library from the previous campaign, which had no multiplayer games announced at all (crucial as the majority of console game launches had at least one multiplayer game).

That said, I certainly wouldn't mind having physical copies of Rokko-Chan, Lethal League, Mega Man 9 & 10, Oniken, Odallus: The Dark Call, The Adventures in the Tower of Flight, among other indie throwback games; other than The Adventures in the Tower of Flight, none of those games were part of the campaign. I'll wait and see what the reaction is on February, which is the month they will show off the console in a toy fair.

http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/09/02 ... rs/165526/

Finally found some of the backwards compatibility info. Says they wanted to have compatibility with at least the NES, Atari 2600, Intellivision and Colecovision. If they can keep that feature at the 150 price point I'm sold. I like the idea of getting new games on cartridges, and a decent NES with HDMI output is already a pretty sweet deal. Hopefully they can add Master System or even better Game Gear. I'd pay 150 to play my Game Gear games on TV for sure. It can cost a hundred bucks just for a fully refurbished Game Gear, and adding TV out usually involves using your own soldering iron, something I haven't done in 14 years.

Shapur wrote:Says they wanted to have compatibility with at least the NES, Atari 2600, Intellivision and Colecovision.

This September article may no longer be valid. We have had all these systems with A/V out now recently, with preloaded games and controllers fitting the system. One of the nice things on last year's Colecovision and Inty Flashbacks were the controllers and overlays, which don't jive with a one-size-fits-all retroconsole. There have been Atari Flashbacks for years, but none have had native cartridge ports, even the Flashback 2. NES top loading famiclones are dirt cheap, many with a famiclone multicart, using the NES-on-a-chip, and you can use your own controllers.

If its HDMI output you are after, then Android emulation seems the route they would go, and its been done before with things like the Ouya if you are okay with ROMs, and the Retron 5 f you are not (its got a lot of cartridge slots - maybe not all someone could wish for like a hu-card reader, but I think it has been pushed about as far as practical now).

I thought the concept was a new 16 or 32 bit cartridge based system for 2D sprite games, which would even fit in with why they are using the jag shell. If they limit the scope like that, what could they do? If that is not good enough, could they just make it compatible with a single retro system? Something like the Genesis, or the SNES, or maybe even cartridge versions of Saturn or PS1 games, with no loading times?

Dave, read the whole thread over at Atari Age, and get some background on Mike Kennedy, and you'll understand the negativity.

it's a lulz machine.

Scotland,

Nah, I don't do ROMs really. I mean technically they are all illegal unless you dump them yourself so I basically just aviod the whole scene. i know some people only download games they legitimately own but the vast majority of people involved are really just engaging in piracy.

For 150 it would still be a great deal if they are going to include that feature still. Sure, I could get 3 different flashbacks and a Retron or similar device but its gonna wind up costing a similar amount anyway. More importantly playing the games on the RetroVGS was supposed to be just like playing it on original hardware, not the less than perfect reproduction we get with emulators.

Heres a post I found online- "To answer the question: "What language will games be in? " My answer is: It depends. If a developer wants to make a Neo Geo game, they would include an HDL file that configures the FPGA to operate like a Neo Geo. The developer would code their game to run against the Neo Geo platform. This HDL code along with the actual Neo Geo game will be on the cartridge. Once that cartridge is placed in the RETRO VGS, it will become a Neo Geo and play that game. So in this case, the language is: 68000 and Z80 code. If you wanted to do a new 2600 styled game, you'd include a 2600 HDL file that configures the FPGA to replicate the logic of the original 2600 hardware and then you'd include your new 2600 game on that cartridge too. These two files are then paired up on the cartridge and when plugged into the RETRO VGS, will turn the console into a 2600. So the language that would be used in this case is: 6507 (6502 with less address space). Does that help explain things a little "bit" more?"

The FPGA sounded like a very interesting feature, and given the price of something like a Retron 5 with it's bad grippy cartridge ports this project sound pretty good. Assuming of course they are still going to include it. Thats the biggest problem I've had with the RetroVGS/Chameleon at this point is they just seem to do a crap job at explaining what the heck the system is/will do.