The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

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Atarifever
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby Atarifever » March 9th, 2018, 7:03 pm

I hate that games that require patches will need a workaround in the future. I think it will decrease their value overall. This is because the part of the market for retro games made up of people popping on eBay to buy some random stuff from their childhood will disappear.

However, the core retrogaming market (i.e. the 2038 versions of us) will just buy whatever crazy invention 2038 Hyperkin or Playstationage.com or whatever have manufactured as a plug and play solution. You'll hook up some device in the old USB port on your PS4 (no one uses USB for anything other than old tech by then, obviously), and that will be tied into the global datanet through wireless upload to the SpaceX infocomet. This will hold all kinds of small files like 500GB old patches and games and will trick the PS3/4 etc. into thinking it's the old Playstation network, and will have the saved and uploaded patches compiled over the years by collectors. Easy.

Doubt it? Then please explain how there are technology solutions to using SD to store game files for the Coleco Adam? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRG9pkGizE4

Don't worry. Geeks always going to geek.

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Retro STrife
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby Retro STrife » March 10th, 2018, 12:34 am

VideoGameCritic wrote:Not totally convinced retro gamers only want to play what they grew up with. Most of the retro systems I have now I never had a chance to play back in the day. Heck, when I was young having multiple systems was pretty much unheard of. Even in the 90's owning a Genesis and SNES at the same time was a luxury.


Critic, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you get started in retro gaming by playing the Atari 2600 games that you grew up with? That's the point I'm getting at - that was the hook for you. Yes, you fell down the rabbit hole afterward, just as I did, and got tons of other systems.. but it all started with replaying the games of your youth. Without you pulling that 2600 out of your closet, it's likely that none of us would be here reading this forum right now.

In modern gaming (both today and modern gaming of the past), we know that there are two main groups of gamers -- casual and hardcore. And we'll very often hear statistics that, whether we like them or not, the gaming industry is dependent on casual gamers in order to thrive. These are the gamers who likely only own one system, buy a few games a year, and play a few hours a week... but they far outnumber us hardcore gamers, so they put more money into the market. Everyone starts at the casual level, and a small percentage transition to hardcore.

Well, as I see it, the retro gaming market is no different.. you have the hardcore retro gamers like us, and the casual retro gamers who buy a clone system and pick up a few of their old favorites on ebay or flea markets. We all start casual, usually pulling an old system out of the closet (or rebuying it second-hand) and buying a few games for it, and a small percentage become hardcore and end up buying tons of old systems, including several just for curiosity sake. But, like them or not, the casual retro gamers are essential to keeping the hobby healthy and thriving.

Anyway, it's those casual retro gamers that I fear you lose in the future, when the modern systems of today eventually become retro systems in 15, 20, 30 years. If it's too difficult to replay the games of their youth, then they never enter that initial casual phase, like you did with the Atari 2600. And without those people, the hobby can't sustain it's current level. It's all just a hypothesis of course, and one that I hope doesn't come true.

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Retro STrife
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby Retro STrife » March 10th, 2018, 12:45 am

Atarifever wrote:I hate that games that require patches will need a workaround in the future. I think it will decrease their value overall. This is because the part of the market for retro games made up of people popping on eBay to buy some random stuff from their childhood will disappear.


Yeah, these are mostly the ones that I'm referring to. That's a significant segment of the market.

Atarifever wrote:However, the core retrogaming market (i.e. the 2038 versions of us) will just buy whatever crazy invention 2038 Hyperkin or Playstationage.com or whatever have manufactured as a plug and play solution. ...

Don't worry. Geeks always going to geek.


I like the scenario you describe, and hope it's true! I agree with it, because, as you mentioned, there are still a ton of resources out there to play games on old computers from the 80s, so that's a good sign. Still, part of the appeal of retro gaming is the ease of just popping in a game and playing. I'm not good with the technology stuff..if something was a huge hassle to get it up and running, then I wouldn't be interested in it. Many people think that same way, which only diminishes the number of people playing today's games in the future. And with less people playing, it hurts the hobby, lowers values of your collection, etc.

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scotland
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby scotland » March 10th, 2018, 10:24 am

It was definitely nostalgia for at least the systems I experienced as a kid (not necessarily particular games, but nostalgia for the feeling of playing on that system) that was the White Rabbit that lured me down Retro Strife's Rabbit Hole of retro gaming and collecting.

In the last few years, Geek hobbyists have changed my experience from tracking down vintage games and accessories to buying handmade accessories. I would not have pursued the TI99 without hobbyist made RAM expansions and other tech. The important point is I am still playing on a vintage unit.

Its the next step that worries me though. Modding current tech, software emulation, hardware emulation (moving from system on a chip to FPGA tech now it seems). In those cases, only the top tier systems are being preserved. For instance, if you want to play 1970s main frame games - its a challenge. If you want to play TI99 games, original hardware is about the only game in town still. If you want to play the NES though - lots of options.

I think there might be entire 'lost systems' going forward.

pacman000
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby pacman000 » March 10th, 2018, 11:18 am

scotland wrote:I think there might be entire 'lost systems' going forward.
That's a frightening prospect.

TI-99 Emulators: https://www.zophar.net/ti99.html Don't know how well any of them work.

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David
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby David » March 10th, 2018, 1:32 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:This is why I only purchase games on physical media that operate offline.
I don't do patches. If a game can't function without them it's not worthy of my time.

I think this is kinda funny. You’ll deny yourself the experience of playing games optimally (or at all) now, because of a hypothetical situation where you may want to play it years down the line?

I agree that with patches and updates that games are becoming less future proof, and retro gaming may suffer in 20 or 30 years. There’s definitely importance to that, and it’s good to preserve history. But with how fast technology is moving I can’t imagine that games will just disappear. Look how may remakes, reissues, collections, classic systems, and emulators are out there now. Plus, the newer consoles are becoming so similar to PCs that Microsoft’s games are all going to be available on PC along with the Xbox, meaning that its games are always going to be out there in the ether even if Microsoft disappeared tomorrow.

On a side note, do other hobbyists worry as much about the future as gamers do?

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scotland
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby scotland » March 10th, 2018, 2:41 pm

pacman000 wrote:
scotland wrote:I think there might be entire 'lost systems' going forward.
That's a frightening prospect.

TI-99 Emulators: https://www.zophar.net/ti99.html Don't know how well any of them work.


I don't know how ell they work either. The problem with emulators is that they too are built on a system or OS with a shelf life. Each new iteration may need the emulators retooled. I was into the Dingoo scene for a time, and hobbyists made all sorts of dingoo and dingux emulators. Now, that hardware has come and mostly gone.

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Atarifever
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby Atarifever » March 10th, 2018, 2:57 pm

scotland wrote:It was definitely nostalgia for at least the systems I experienced as a kid (not necessarily particular games, but nostalgia for the feeling of playing on that system) that was the White Rabbit that lured me down Retro Strife's Rabbit Hole of retro gaming and collecting.

This is similar to me. I got back into older systems by going to a flea market when I suddenly had the want to get a 2600. It was just sort of a want to experience the first system I ever owned myself. That week, there was no 2600 there, but there was a 7800. The guy at the table explained the 7800 to me, and I bought it so I could use it as a 2600. That started me digging into the history and library of the 7800, and that's my primary interest in all of retrogaming now. I came here for the 2600 I used to own as a kid, and stayed for the 7800 I only found out about while looking for that.



scotland wrote:Its the next step that worries me though. Modding current tech, software emulation, hardware emulation (moving from system on a chip to FPGA tech now it seems). In those cases, only the top tier systems are being preserved. For instance, if you want to play 1970s main frame games - its a challenge. If you want to play TI99 games, original hardware is about the only game in town still. If you want to play the NES though - lots of options.

I think there might be entire 'lost systems' going forward.


I see what you mean, and I think you're right about the lost systems (there will always be lots of video of them preserved at least). I think cult-classic systems will also be preserved along with the top tier. The Neo Geo wasn't a huge seller (although they did move a lot of arcade units for over a decade outside just the consoles), but you can buy and play games from it on every system since the PS2, and a handheld/docked forerunner of the Switch was released for it just a few years back, bringing it back as actual hardware. I imagine cult stuff like that, the Dreamcast, and the TG-16 will punch above their weight and end up with new physical hardware their numbers wouldn't predict. But yeah, a lot of stuff is going to die out with the end of its functioning old hardware.

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VideoGameCritic
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby VideoGameCritic » March 10th, 2018, 8:12 pm

David wrote:
VideoGameCritic wrote:This is why I only purchase games on physical media that operate offline.
I don't do patches. If a game can't function without them it's not worthy of my time.

I think this is kinda funny. You’ll deny yourself the experience of playing games optimally (or at all) now, because of a hypothetical situation where you may want to play it years down the line?


It's not just that. If I'm buying a game I don't want my ability to access it to be determined by the whim of some remote server. Also, there's another layer to it. My ISP is Comcast, and my connection is unreliable and often slow. So you could say optimally is a subjective term.

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ptdebate
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Re: The Sad State of Future Retro Gaming (and Managing Storage on New Consoles)

Postby ptdebate » March 10th, 2018, 8:43 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:
David wrote:
VideoGameCritic wrote:This is why I only purchase games on physical media that operate offline.
I don't do patches. If a game can't function without them it's not worthy of my time.

I think this is kinda funny. You’ll deny yourself the experience of playing games optimally (or at all) now, because of a hypothetical situation where you may want to play it years down the line?


It's not just that. If I'm buying a game I don't want my ability to access it to be determined by the whim of some remote server. Also, there's another layer to it. My ISP is Comcast, and my connection is unreliable and often slow. So you could say optimally is a subjective term.


I don't know that this is a reasonable stance to take...games are just software, after all. The only difference between new games and old games (in terms of patches) is that new games can be patched easily via the internet, whereas old games had to release a whole new physical revision with the patches applied. This was too expensive for most situations, so more often than not buggy games remained buggy.

I respect your opinion because I know it is based on experience, but I must say that the online inconveniences decried on this board do not match anything that has ever happened to me. The Xbox stays connected, so I almost never have to actually experience a patch download. When I do, it's fast (granted, I now have a 1000Mbps connection). It usually happens when I'm not using the console.


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