Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

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VideoGameCritic
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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby VideoGameCritic » September 19th, 2018, 8:56 pm

One trend I find alarming is how these "classic" consoles are becoming more and more expensive. I'm wondering how long it will be before we get a full-featured model packed with games for the same price as a modern console?

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scotland
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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby scotland » September 19th, 2018, 9:01 pm

They are getting more expensive. The $99 price was probably a target, and they may have ditched the analog controllers to get there. I could guess the price is in party climbing due to the popularity of the NES retro console, which also anchored the price. This is a much later system, so therefore, they can pitch the higher price. In addition, Nintendo didn't have to license their own games, but this console may have to. Those licenses may be getting more expensive now as well.

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Atariboy
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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby Atariboy » September 20th, 2018, 6:47 am

ptdebate wrote:For the sake of people who are going to buy this console, I sincerely hope that they don't force HD upscaling. The PS1 games that are completely 3D should look fine with it, but the many games that combine 2D and 3D elements look really bad when they do this.


There's no way around it since high-definition displays are fixed pixel displays. Any non-conforming resolution has to be scaled to match the set's native resolution. The only question is does it happen at the console end or the television end.

Much like the NES/SNES Classic, I can guarantee that upscaling will happen at the console end. Not only is there a potential for a game or two here that changes resolution mid-stream which can confuse a television and cause the screen to momentarily go black (Chrono Cross is infamous for this), but most HDTV's don't gracefully handle the PS1's typical 240p resolution.

With 240p they sometimes refuse to display a picture at all, often mistreat it as if it were 480i, or just plain don't do a good job at upscaling it which damages picture quality and/or introduces noticeable input lag. Built-in software upscaling designed specifically to handle these games is much preferable to just leaving it up to a tv's generic internal scaling chip.

CharlieR wrote:One other thing worth noting is that since these controllers are the original ones without the analog stick, would that affect the game selection at all? I wonder if later games that used the analog sticks will not be included.


Doesn't appear so since Ridge Racer Type 4 is here. It's a late release and one of the technical showcases for the PS1. It has full Dual Shock support.

Great game, but control won't be as good with a digital d-pad here. Surprised the iconic launch title wasn't selected instead, since that's what most people remember and it was built for these controllers.

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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby GTS » September 20th, 2018, 7:53 am

Since I already have a PS1 collection I probably won't buy the mini. However, I do think the $100 is a good deal if you intend to collect the games in the future. The five games announced so far would be $100 if you bought physical copies. Of course those prices might drop now that the games will become more available. I also included the digital prices below.



Final Fantasy VII (physical $20, $16 digital)
Wild Arms $25 $6
Ridge Racer Type 4 $13 $6
Jumping Flash $35 $6
Tekken 3 $8 (not available digitally)

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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby Sut » September 20th, 2018, 11:53 am

I’m tempted but would need to see the full list. Playstation is very different to the NES/SNES in that most of its monumental games where third party.

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David
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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby David » September 20th, 2018, 2:28 pm

Atariboy wrote:
ptdebate wrote:For the sake of people who are going to buy this console, I sincerely hope that they don't force HD upscaling. The PS1 games that are completely 3D should look fine with it, but the many games that combine 2D and 3D elements look really bad when they do this.


There's no way around it since high-definition displays are fixed pixel displays. Any non-conforming resolution has to be scaled to match the set's native resolution. The only question is does it happen at the console end or the television end.

Much like the NES/SNES Classic, I can guarantee that upscaling will happen at the console end. Not only is there a potential for a game or two here that changes resolution mid-stream which can confuse a television and cause the screen to momentarily go black (Chrono Cross is infamous for this), but most HDTV's don't gracefully handle the PS1's typical 240p resolution.

With 240p they sometimes refuse to display a picture at all, often mistreat it as if it were 480i, or just plain don't do a good job at upscaling it which damages picture quality and/or introduces noticeable input lag. Built-in software upscaling designed specifically to handle these games is much preferable to just leaving it up to a tv's generic internal scaling chip.


I thought Ptdebate was referring to HD versions of games like FF7 and FF9, where the polygonal characters are rendered in HD but the static backgrounds are in their original resolutions. Playing PS1 classics on an HDTV through a PS3 hasn’t really bothered me. Sure, a lot of them haven’t aged the most gracefully but they look basically as I remembered them.

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ptdebate
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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby ptdebate » September 20th, 2018, 2:48 pm

David wrote:
Atariboy wrote:
ptdebate wrote:For the sake of people who are going to buy this console, I sincerely hope that they don't force HD upscaling. The PS1 games that are completely 3D should look fine with it, but the many games that combine 2D and 3D elements look really bad when they do this.


There's no way around it since high-definition displays are fixed pixel displays. Any non-conforming resolution has to be scaled to match the set's native resolution. The only question is does it happen at the console end or the television end.

Much like the NES/SNES Classic, I can guarantee that upscaling will happen at the console end. Not only is there a potential for a game or two here that changes resolution mid-stream which can confuse a television and cause the screen to momentarily go black (Chrono Cross is infamous for this), but most HDTV's don't gracefully handle the PS1's typical 240p resolution.

With 240p they sometimes refuse to display a picture at all, often mistreat it as if it were 480i, or just plain don't do a good job at upscaling it which damages picture quality and/or introduces noticeable input lag. Built-in software upscaling designed specifically to handle these games is much preferable to just leaving it up to a tv's generic internal scaling chip.


I thought Ptdebate was referring to HD versions of games like FF7 and FF9, where the polygonal characters are rendered in HD but the static backgrounds are in their original resolutions. Playing PS1 classics on an HDTV through a PS3 hasn’t really bothered me. Sure, a lot of them haven’t aged the most gracefully but they look basically as I remembered them.


Exactly. You can upscale the display resolution without touching the render resolution. It will look fuzzy, but I think it's a preferable tradeoff to having mismatched elements like you have with the FF7 and FF9 rereleases.

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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby C64_Critic » September 22nd, 2018, 4:38 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:One trend I find alarming is how these "classic" consoles are becoming more and more expensive. I'm wondering how long it will be before we get a full-featured model packed with games for the same price as a modern console?


I also really dislike how they are 1) almost certainly emulator, not hardware-based, and 2) intentionally neutered so that they're locked down to the addition of other games in the future. The reason I especially hate #2 is I'm sure it's only because they want to launch yet another 'classic' collection in the future at higher profit margins than if they just released the classic with the ability to purchase additional games in the future via some online service. I don't want to shell out $100 for 20 games, a probable mixed bag of good and mediocre games, just so that 1 year from now they can try to hit me again for another $100 mix of an additional 20 games, also a mixed bag of good/decent.

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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby ActRaiser » September 22nd, 2018, 9:51 pm

C64_Critic wrote:
VideoGameCritic wrote:One trend I find alarming is how these "classic" consoles are becoming more and more expensive. I'm wondering how long it will be before we get a full-featured model packed with games for the same price as a modern console?


I also really dislike how they are 1) almost certainly emulator, not hardware-based, and 2) intentionally neutered so that they're locked down to the addition of other games in the future. The reason I especially hate #2 is I'm sure it's only because they want to launch yet another 'classic' collection in the future at higher profit margins than if they just released the classic with the ability to purchase additional games in the future via some online service. I don't want to shell out $100 for 20 games, a probable mixed bag of good and mediocre games, just so that 1 year from now they can try to hit me again for another $100 mix of an additional 20 games, also a mixed bag of good/decent.



Well, if they are anything like the NES classic or SNES classic they'll be super easy to hack to replace with your own roms.

There are YouTube videos that walk you through it. Don't like the games initially offered then download the ISOs you'd rather play. It's actually not that bad or hard to do. I want Point Blank! :D

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txsizzler
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Re: Sony Playstation Classic, $99 US, 12/3

Postby txsizzler » September 25th, 2018, 2:02 pm

ActRaiser wrote:
C64_Critic wrote:
VideoGameCritic wrote:One trend I find alarming is how these "classic" consoles are becoming more and more expensive. I'm wondering how long it will be before we get a full-featured model packed with games for the same price as a modern console?


I also really dislike how they are 1) almost certainly emulator, not hardware-based, and 2) intentionally neutered so that they're locked down to the addition of other games in the future. The reason I especially hate #2 is I'm sure it's only because they want to launch yet another 'classic' collection in the future at higher profit margins than if they just released the classic with the ability to purchase additional games in the future via some online service. I don't want to shell out $100 for 20 games, a probable mixed bag of good and mediocre games, just so that 1 year from now they can try to hit me again for another $100 mix of an additional 20 games, also a mixed bag of good/decent.



Well, if they are anything like the NES classic or SNES classic they'll be super easy to hack to replace with your own roms.

There are YouTube videos that walk you through it. Don't like the games initially offered then download the ISOs you'd rather play. It's actually not that bad or hard to do. I want Point Blank! :D


Besides the potential legal ramifications (like, you don't already own the actual physical copy of the game), my biggest fear in going to these ROM/ISO sites, is that you will end up on a virus-ridden webpage, so how can you tell if a site like this is too risky to use?


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