Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

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brent
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Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby brent » January 23rd, 2019, 8:13 pm

VGC and I went snowboarding today. No, not on the godforsaken Thrustmaster he busts out once a year and forces us to roll our ankles on (https://videogamecritic.com/extras/revi ... master.htm), but hitting the actual slopes with real live snow. Anyways, this leaves plenty of time on the lifts to talk about the games we've been playing, discuss grades, complain about work, talk about how good that first beer is after snowboarding, and wonder why there are so many mardi gras beads in the trees adjacent to the ski lifts.

We both recently played through Axiom Verge and its fair to say we both rank it near the top of the games we've played in the last few years. I went on the hunt for more metroidvanias and with near unanimous internet support I downloaded and started playing Hollow Knight.

Like VGC, I'm primarily a fan of physical media, however, I'm lazier and cheaper and do not have multiple rooms lined in games that I need to keep contributing to. I mean, he still has a couple spots that have empty space so of course he needs to fill them! Anyhow, I'll get a download only indie game here and there. I've been burned before so I rarely just download random games and I will only typically get a download only game with some following online.

Enter Hollow Knight.

I love this game. It's great. It's fun, it's addicting, and it has many of the qualities that VGC raves about in games: it is easy to pick up and play for any amount of time, great/unique graphics, great music, unique game play/mechanics, it is fun, etc. BUT, it is strictly download only and apparently a deal between Team Cherry and Skybound Games to put it out on physical media fell through.

So, I need your help. I think to convince VGC to finally get, play, and review a download-only game it is going take a greater push than my insistence. I've tried, but fallen short. This is where you come in. If you have played Hollow Knight and think VGC might like it, please chime in and let him know in this thread. Thanks!

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Stalvern
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby Stalvern » January 24th, 2019, 6:04 am

The no-downloads rule is pretty much nonsense in the context of the Critic's overall ideals. The biggest developers crank out endless, soulless franchise installments and make exclusive licensing deals that allow them to be as lazy as they want without worrying about competition, all the while squeezing customers dry with microtransactions... but it's the indie developers who can't even afford to put their games on disk (largely because of arbitrary fees imposed on them by the console manufacturers) that he effectively boycotts while buying yet another year's Madden just to give it a D. Makes sense to me!

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Retro STrife
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby Retro STrife » January 24th, 2019, 9:13 am

Hey, if you can’t do it, we don’t have a chance. We’ve been trying for 10 years for pete’s sake.

I’ve never played Hollow Knight but I do know the Critic is doing himself a disservice with that aversion of his to internet on consoles and download-only games. I understand preferring physical media, we all prefer physical media here, but sometimes download is the only option. You can’t fault an indie developer for that when they don’t have the financial backing to release a game on disc.

The worst part is- many of the games that the VGC would love most from the past 10 years are indie games! You gotta make a change, Critic! Online consoles aren’t always a bad thing. You make us all connect to the internet to view your website, and refuse to release it on disc, yet here we all are!

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ptdebate
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby ptdebate » January 24th, 2019, 11:28 am

I think the Critic has the idea that games not on disk are generally of lower quality than the ones published on physical media. I believe the rest of us heartily disagree that there is any necessary correlation between quality and publishing method.

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ptdebate
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby ptdebate » January 24th, 2019, 11:31 am

Also, I can't think of an example but I'm almost certain the VGC has downloaded games in the past. But you can bet that he will have already made a judgment on the title based on this and will likely include the experience of having to download something as part of the review ;)

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Retro STrife
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby Retro STrife » January 24th, 2019, 3:06 pm

ptdebate wrote:Also, I can't think of an example but I'm almost certain the VGC has downloaded games in the past. But you can bet that he will have already made a judgment on the title based on this and will likely include the experience of having to download something as part of the review ;)


There is a "download only" icon, with 14 total reviews using it (although one is a joke review and a couple are RPG Crew reviews). But that's a good sign at least.

https://videogamecritic.com/icon/icon_Download_Only.htm

brent
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby brent » January 24th, 2019, 4:22 pm

Retro STrife wrote:Hey, if you can’t do it, we don’t have a chance. We’ve been trying for 10 years for pete’s sake.


You might be surprised. A little bit of community support goes a long way to convince him. Sometimes we're diametrically opposed. I'm fairly certain we've had this conversation...

VGC: What grade would you give this?
brent: I dunno, B, B+ at most.
VGC: I was thinking D+, but I'll probably just go straight D.

brent
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby brent » January 24th, 2019, 4:34 pm

ptdebate wrote:I think the Critic has the idea that games not on disk are generally of lower quality than the ones published on physical media. I believe the rest of us heartily disagree that there is any necessary correlation between quality and publishing method.


I think it was probably a fair point at some point. When download-only games were in their early days it seems like there were more garbage than good games. To be frank, that is still definitely the case, however, the best download-only games now are amazing. Moreover, they feel less like they were designed by a focus group like the blockbuster games and more the work of a single designer.

I think quality control is a huge issue with the VGC. It is just much easier to push a game out too early and patch later when no physical media is involved. In fact, I must concede I've hit two bugs in Hollow Knight. That said, it hasn't really dampened the experience at all!

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Retro STrife
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby Retro STrife » January 24th, 2019, 5:26 pm

I guess we'll need the VGC chime in here to clarify his reasoning, but I didn't think it was concerns about quality control. I thought it was more along the lines of hating the move toward digital-only content, and he refused to support that move by buying download-only games. Combine that with his aversion to connecting his console's online, playing online games, buying online subscriptions, etc., and you also end up with less exposure to the download-only titles, since you have to take your console online to obtain them.

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Retro STrife
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Re: Hollow Knight - Can we convince VGC to download a game?

Postby Retro STrife » January 24th, 2019, 5:33 pm

brent wrote:We both recently played through Axiom Verge and its fair to say we both rank it near the top of the games we've played in the last few years. I went on the hunt for more metroidvanias and with near unanimous internet support I downloaded and started playing Hollow Knight.


Btw, speaking of indie Metroidvania games to try.. if you missed out on Shadow Complex, I highly recommend it - my favorite indie game ever and a great Metroidvania game. I played it years back on Xbox 360, so I wonder if it still holds up today. It got a re-release on the PS4 in 2016 - along with a physical release from Limited Run.

Perhaps even more compelling - check out Yoku's Island Express, which just came out in 2018. It even got a physical release that I just bought for $15 on Amazon. Very unique - it's a combination of Metroidvania and.... PINBALL. As weird as that sound, it got great reviews and looks very cool in the videos I've watched, but so many people have overlooked it.


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