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Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 6th, 2007, 6:50 am
by Bartman
Right now, there is more reasons in violence in anything that is not videogaming. For the Columbine shootings, it was violent music, movies, and games. Second, how do we know that if a person who shoots people in a school played a violent game? You would need a time machine to go back in time to see what they were doing before all the shootings. And third, there was violence before Sony entered, way before Nintendo began and all sorts of game characters.

Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 6th, 2007, 8:35 am
by bluemonkey1

In the UK we have tons of violent games yet strangely no school shootings.   Hmmm....

 

Oh yeah guns are illegal.

 

It's not rocket science.


Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 6th, 2007, 1:50 pm
by Alienblue
What Bartman said reminds me of that old Comic Book scandal, the seduction of the innocent, a book in which a Psychiatrist tried to find what convicted felons in prison had in common...turned out they had all read COMIC BOOKS as kids so OF COURSE "DING!", Comic books cause violence, we must BAN comic books, keep them from our children my GOD it is HORRIBLE! - Of course, it never occured to him that church going, law abiding citizens read comic books as kids too. People ALWAYS want an easy scapegoat.

Videogames do not cause violence. I've played games for over 23 years now, killing space aliens, DOOM demons and eating GHOST MONSTERS ALIVE! - yet I would take my own life before someone elses, I would never harm ANYBODY. No, games do not cause violence. They cause Buttlemian Scabes Pox. (and itchy trigger fingers of course...)

Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 8th, 2007, 9:26 pm
by Bartman

Okay, Alienblue belives that games don't cause violence. That's good. The average gamer is 30 years old. Adults can play violent games but not copycat violence in real life. Teens are different or sort of like adults. Teens who know violence is not the answer know not to do violence like a video game. I mean, ESRB does work but it's just, people don't look at the box and see the rating ever since buying a Sega Genesis or Super Nintendo game. There is no security or identity checks in stores. I wonder if VGC has to check his identity for games. It is especially for anyone who has kids. They do look at the rating but they give in and buy the violent game for 4-8 year olds. Some don't buy the game, but plenty do and then complain and then the government responds. It's gonna be one day and the government will snap... Oh, wait. The government has snapped. They just want to make gaming bills and ban sales. That's the whole thing.


Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 8th, 2007, 10:40 pm
by m0zart1
[QUOTE=bluemonkey]

In the UK we have tons of violent games yet strangely no school shootings.   Hmmm....

 

Oh yeah guns are illegal.

 

It's not rocket science.

[/QUOTE]

Ah then there is violence I would say.  Since owning a gun does not equate to being a killer with a gun or being violent, putting the poor sap in jail seems to be violence against him, by any objective definition of what "violence" means.

 

I suppose what you meant to say was that there is only institutional violence?  I guess it's pretty easy for you to turn a blind eye to that while you cat-call about the superiority of your society.


Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 9th, 2007, 1:02 am
by Steerforth

 

O.K., fine you are an adult and I have no desire to tell you what you can't or shouldn't do or enjoy. But I do not think most people really look at the violence/sex issue in a balanced way, I think you naturally are biased in favor anything that sells is good for gaming. Here are some problems I have with that attitude, though.

1. The violence GENERALLY has no purpose or point to it, as it more likely would in a story or a movie, it just exists for its own sake. I am not trying to be inflammatory here, but that basically makes it pornography.

2. Yesterday's children are now adults, and supposedly these games are made for adults, but you don't have an ounce of credibility if you cannot admit that a very significant portion of these games are bought by kids.

3.Is that a problem? I think it is. Games don't train kids to kill, but they certainly are going to make impressionable minds more aggressive, violent and chaotic on a smaller, every day scale. Does anyone doubt that ADD is brought on by television commercials, videogames, and crappy children’s programming? Thankfully, we have drugs for that, I guess. I won't hang my hat on the "Well, its the parents responsibly" line of thought either. Because when they fail as parents, and they fail in droves, it becomes societies' problem, one way or another. Some would argue it is not a problem at all, I am not with you on that, either.

4. It is an easy story for the media to cover, and it scares and disgusts the older generation, so it brings them ratings. The media gives a platform to people like Jack Thompson, who builds a career out of it, and it eventually it gets big enough to become an easy political football for politicians as well. No doubt that violent videogame are a VERY easy target for these people, the industry does very little to help their own image.

5.Why? Because they make their living selling to teenagers, and whatever you are selling to kids, be it movies, music or games, in general you are best off selling something controversial and negative. Rebelling against society imposing its values on you, with your parent's money, ha ha. As far as corporate marketing strategy goes, image = credibility. I think it is self evident that corporate values generally run contrary to personal responsibility, profit is an end unto itself.

6. But all that wind aside, I think it is negative because it is stupid. Videogames will never be considered art as long as this sort of thing is their staple. When the shock value wears off, where is the substance? I think the whole thing will eventually go stale, and yet I thought rap music had peaked when I was in high school, and I ain't getting any younger.

I know it would be easy to rip me en masse, but please, for the sake of variety, pick a specific bone and focus on that, lets have a real discussion. I apologize if this post sounds pretentious, I do the best I can with what I got.


Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 9th, 2007, 5:58 pm
by a1

Yes, well Steerforth, I played Turok 2 when I was 8 (you know, the game with a gun that latches onto someone's head, drills in, and explodes), and I'm not going around killing people. I'm not necessarily saying that kids should be exposed to this kind of violence, but I don't think it is doing as much harm as the media would like to make us believe. It is more important that a child's parents raise him/her to understand right and wrong and to be a healthy adult then completely shelter him/her from every violent movie and game out there.


Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 9th, 2007, 11:12 pm
by Bartman
On the side part, I have played Doom and Wolfenstein since I was 2 years old and it has not bugged me. Anyways, what a is saying is right. Parents need to raise their kids right. If they bought their child a game system, they would buy the right games, like Mario, and Sonic. Now, parents don't look at the rating or go on the ESRB website. You know how kids whine and beg for games that are violent or not. For violent ones, parents do the right thing and say no.Then, they have to give in and buy it. Now, parents don't know the gameplay of Doom, Grand Theft Auto, Manhunt. They assume just because they see in the game, blood and gore, start complaining. Now if they played the game, it would be a different story. To be honest, I don't know what causes violence in teens. It could be anything. For school shootings, teens could have trained on using the machine guns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols and then kill. And after that, the government blames it on games. There is no excuse. All they do is make lies. But, that's what makes the world go round. I read on the Good Deal Games website ( which makes Sega CD games.) that in 2000 for the Presidental election, Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman as Vice President. Then they told a history of Lieberman and games and how he said you had to rape women in Night Trap which was a whole lie. In colnclusion, when I'm older, married, and have kids, I will use the ESRB, and give my kids the right games.

Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 10th, 2007, 8:23 pm
by Steerforth

I don't disagree with you Bartman, it always ticks me off to see parents buy their kids ultra violent games. And I see it pretty common. I'm don't even think its a matter of them not knowing what they're buying, maybe they are just to afraid to tick of their kid, too lazy to care. But it is none of my business. I don't think government interference or anything else will do much to solve this problem, at most they will put more of a burden on stores to crack down on kids buying games by threatening retailers with fines. So they will feel better about themselves at least. Nothing is disappearing faster in our country today than personal responsibility.

The internet is a big tool for sex offenders, child predators, etc., and I think violent kids find and build each other up, too. If you are a really sick person, you are not as likely in the digital age to feel isolated, in addition to the television news media putting a big spotlight on the worst parts of society, and cynically milking it for all it is worth. Broadcast primetime T.V. is a real cess poll, you see a TON of violence, especially toward women and kids on these cop shows. If I did not play videogames, I would use my T.V. for little else, though of course it ain't all bad. At least with the internet you have to seek out perversion, with television you just passively soak it in. Freedom of speech has a lot more value if you actually have something worthwhile to say. But none of this is truly about censorship, it is about dollars.


Controversial games subject (A.K.A. The government problems

Posted: March 11th, 2007, 6:45 am
by Alienblue
I want to elaborate on my post...games do not cause TEENS and ADULTS to act violently, anymore than reading/looking at porno turns adults into rapists (not that I would ever look at dirty pictures of course! Ima-da-Pope!)... but KIDS CAN BE IMPRESSIONABLE at a certain age, say ten or under. They can't always tell moral/immoral, wrong from right. Two examples- abused children often grow up to be abusers themselves as we know. Also, when I was young-in the early 70's-the BATMAN TV show was big. And of course, you had a lot of kids at school (boys mostly) running around pretending to be batman. So, said kids could play martal Kombat and run around doing fatalities..to them it's just play, in the game characters don't really "die", why should they in real life? So, what I was/am saying is Violent games should be rated and kept for teens or older. I wouldn't want my 5 year old (if i had one) playing Doom and saying "COOL! CAN I HAVE A GUN!?"