Gamespot on Zelda

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m0zart1
Posts: 3117
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby m0zart1 » January 21st, 2007, 4:06 am

First we get the controversy at IGN that Matt Casamassia brings up.  I think after watching the video of the Roundtable he was referring to, he has some very valid points.

 

However, Gamespot sometimes has some strange caveats as well.  Take a look at Brad Shoemaker's recent contradiction about the Zelda title, for instance:

 

Gamespot's Most Anticipated Games: 2005 (written in 2004):

 

Confession time: I'm glad the new Zelda isn't cel-shaded. The Wind Waker was an incredible game that completely succeeded at what it attempted to do. There's a reason we awarded it Game of the Year in 2003, after all. It came closer to a living, breathing animated film than any other game I've ever seen. Same great Zelda formula and one-of-a-kind visuals... It's not that I didn't appreciate The Wind Waker's fanciful reimagining of the Zelda universe; I just like the Nintendo 64 Zeldas even more. The Ocarina of Time remains one of my all-time favorite games, even six years after its release, and that's saying something. To think that Nintendo is now going to revisit the same style with its next Zelda. Well, the thrill is palpable.

 

Now take a look at his comments in the 2007 version of the same annual feature:

 

Gamespot's Most Anticipated: 2007 (written very recently):

 

The 2004 announcement of Twilight Princess and its realistic visual style was great wish fulfillment for a lot of diehard Zelda fans, but to me it just felt like backpedaling on the part of Nintendo. The company made a bold move in conceiving The Wind Waker's childish, cartoonlike graphics (which admittedly received an ambivalent response), but I thought the game's visuals represented a pleasing evolution of the similarly colorful graphics in past games like the resplendent Link to the Past. So I was disappointed to see Nintendo move away from The Wind Waker's style so quickly--and then just as delighted to find out last year that a new Zelda game, Phantom Hourglass, would reprise that whimsical approach on the DS.

 

I hate to bring this up because it sounds very much like I am splitting hairs.  I mean, anybody has a right to change their mind.  So, I almost didn't post this.  But then I read it again, this time a little closer.  Look at what he says.  He's saying in early 2007 that his reaction to the news that the next console Zelda game wouldn't be cell-shaded was a disappointment, and constituted "backpedaling on the part of Nintendo", and he's basically saying that was his opinion in 2004 as well.  But reading his comments from 2004, basically from the same feature, he says the exact opposite.  He isn't saying that his mind has changed since then.  He's saying that's been his opinion on it all along.

 

Will the real Brad Shoemaker please stand up?!?

 

I hope I am not making too much out of this.  I was reading this new feature tonight and something about his words bugged me.  It took me almost an hour to remember that he was the very guy saying the opposite in late 2004.  And it took me almost as long as that again just to find the page where he said it.


a1
Posts: 3032
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby a1 » January 21st, 2007, 4:33 am

I appreciate the investigation effort, and I think you have a right to be annoyed. He is completely contradicting himself, but I do have to admit that I have trouble deciding whether I prefer the cel-shading or not, too. On the one hand Wind Waker was a beautiful game, but on the other hand the visuals gave it a lighter tone and I feel they would be out of place in Twilight Princess. I think each game goes with the art-style that serves it best.


m0zart1
Posts: 3117
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby m0zart1 » January 21st, 2007, 4:37 am

[QUOTE=a]

I appreciate the investigation effort, and I think you have a right to be annoyed. He is completely contradicting himself, but I do have to admit that I have trouble deciding whether I prefer the cel-shading or not, too. On the one hand Wind Waker was a beautiful game, but on the other hand the visuals gave it a lighter tone and I feel they would be out of place in Twilight Princess. I think each game goes with the art-style that serves it best.

[/QUOTE]

I think there's a very non-subtle difference between being torn on the issue, and making two extreme statements that contradict each other, especially when one tries to reinvent the other two years later.


a1
Posts: 3032
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby a1 » January 21st, 2007, 4:40 am

[QUOTE=m0zart]I think there's a very non-subtle difference between being torn on the issue, and making two extreme statements that contradict each other, especially when one tries to reinvent the other two years later.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm not trying to defend him. If he wants to change his mind he should live up to it; it seems like he is criticizing Nintendo just for the sake of criticizing. What's worse is that you're probably one of a very small number of people that realize he did it.


Conn

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby Conn » January 21st, 2007, 5:26 am

I like his lastname.

m0zart1
Posts: 3117
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby m0zart1 » January 21st, 2007, 6:57 am

[QUOTE=a]

No, I'm not trying to defend him. If he wants to change his mind he should live up to it; it seems like he is criticizing Nintendo just for the sake of criticizing. What's worse is that you're probably one of a very small number of people that realize he did it.

[/QUOTE]

Sorry I jumped to conclusions there.  I was up in arms, trying to decide to myself whether I should post that on Gamespot forums or not.  Doing so could mean a moderation, though it depends on which moderator catches it first.


Paul Campbell

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby Paul Campbell » January 21st, 2007, 12:28 pm

I don't really post on any other video game forums, so I have to ask, would the moderators really remove the post because it caught one of their writers contradicting himself?  That would make me lose any respect I had for that kind of organization.  I love it when magazines (not gaming ones) post letters to the editor that mock them or point out problems and stuff.  It means the magazine knows it's not perfect, and trusts the intelligence of its readers to know the same.


a1
Posts: 3032
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby a1 » January 21st, 2007, 4:51 pm

You were referring to the same general thing m0zart. Matt's response on ign is completely related to Okami winning.


m0zart1
Posts: 3117
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby m0zart1 » January 21st, 2007, 5:16 pm

[QUOTE=a]

You were referring to the same general thing m0zart. Matt's response on ign is completely related to Okami winning.

[/QUOTE]

I know that he was responding to the Okami win, and that it bothered him, but as he said himself, what is worse is HOW Okami won, which is basically through what he says is editoral malfeasance:

 

As you pointed out, though, what is far worse is the level of displayed arrogance and ignorance by some of the editors. If you watch the video, you will hear some of these people rip into Zelda as though it was a major disappointment and unworthy of even making the nominations list. The kicker is that these very same commentators clearly never played so much as 10 minutes of the game. In our written roundtable, which I encourage you to read on Insider, Peer and I made the case that - accidentally or on purpose - there is an editorial faction at IGN that does not give Nintendo's games a fair shake. I don't think there is any disputing that point after watching and reading our Game of the Year wrap-ups.

 

I am not so much complaining about what you said so much as I was trying to clarify my position.  Okami winning isn't that big of a deal to me, even if it was to Matt C.  These GOTY awards are near worthless, and won't accurately measure what a game actually means to the gaming community in the long run.  A million Okami GOTY awards won't make Okami better than Twilight Princess, and they won't make Okami a more remembered experience among the gaming community either.


But I am bothered by incompetence.  That bothers me personally in a way that I can't escape.  It makes me not want to take the editors seriously anymore at all, or the source, namely IGN.

 

... and frankly, I had considered Brad Shoemaker one of the more consistent reviewers on Gamespot.  Though in retrospect, I don't think I had any evidence for it.  I was sort of giving him the benefit of the doubt by default.


Michael D

Gamespot on Zelda

Postby Michael D » January 21st, 2007, 7:28 pm

[QUOTE=a]

A million Okami GOTY awards won't make Okami better than Twilight Princess, and they won't make Okami a more remembered experience among the gaming community either.

[/QUOTE]

 

Well, Zelda will be remembered more than Okami only because it sold well and, hey, it's Zelda; it has a rabid fan base. I think that if all the people who played Twilight Princess also played Okami, it would resonate with gamers just as much, if not more than Zelda.   

 

Personally, I agree completely with IGN's assessment. Okami had the original features and impeccable execution that made it really stand out from the crowd.  Zelda, as good as it is, did feel like more of the same to me, and certain elements (the camera and the parts with Link as the wolf) weren't done nearly as well as in Okami.  



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