You Have to Go Online

General and high profile video game topics.
User avatar
Stalvern
Posts: 1208
Joined: June 18th, 2016, 7:15 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby Stalvern » April 9th, 2020, 12:23 pm

David wrote:I mean, if you want to complaint for another fifteen years about how the internet is changing gaming, go for it. Or just opt out. It’s not perfect but I’m fine with the industry now, and I’m sure it’ll be fine in twenty years.

I'm not fine with most industries related to tech and entertainment (or most industries in general) and fully expect more open contempt from them to be tolerated 20 years from now.

bluenote
Posts: 149
Joined: August 14th, 2015, 5:16 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby bluenote » April 9th, 2020, 12:24 pm

David wrote:
Stalvern wrote:I'm not saying that it can't be used constructively. What I'm saying is that it, on balance, makes things worse for players overall. It is the nature of systems to be exploited. I don't think there's anything to be done about it, nor was there ever.

I'm biased in favor of online distribution because of my experiences with indie games, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to notice that, across the board, tech companies are trying to get people plugged into more and more services and trying to shift software to a service-based model in general. This isn't because it makes things better for anyone besides themselves.

For sure, gaming, movies, music, TV, you name it, are all moving to service based models because it’s clearly better for them and it’s possible now that the internet is widespread. Are they only doing it to benefit themselves? Sure, but I mean...that’s what businesses do. It’s also beneficial to make sure their customers are happy with their services, and if things were always in a state of getting worse for people eventually we’d all collectively get fed up. There are trade offs we’ve all made. Twenty years ago I couldn’t download a game the midnight of release and play it without leaving my house. In Civ 6 there was a battle royale mode added last year fir free that I wouldn’t have been able to get either at all, or without waiting to purchase an expansion. I wouldn’t have access to who knows how many games that wouldn’t exist without digital distribution. I know people here hate to hear it, but I’m increasing aware or how much waste I’m producing and for me, the less plastic And other crap I have around the better.

Clearly there are downsides. The idea of ownership is changing. We have less control of things we purchase, especially digital items. The internet, while available for a lot of people, is also not available to a lot of people as well, which will increasingly become difficult for people without it. I think patches are generally fine, but plug and play doesn’t really apply to consoles anymore.

I get it, but it just kills me when patches and online and the whole bit has been around since the 360/PS3 and it’s still “online gaming is annoying” “patches suck” “where are instruction manuals” “they just want us to give us all our information” :evil: ! It’s been fifteen years of complaining about the same thing, and yet the industry keeps moving forward. Why not save the complaints to help shape the industry as it moves forward, instead of complaining about something it will never be again?


I think this is exactly what I was trying to articulate (rather poorly I guess!) as well.

User avatar
VideoGameCritic
Site Admin
Posts: 13973
Joined: April 1st, 2015, 7:23 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby VideoGameCritic » April 9th, 2020, 12:30 pm

David wrote:I get it, but it just kills me when patches and online and the whole bit has been around since the 360/PS3 and it’s still “online gaming is annoying” “patches suck” “where are instruction manuals” “they just want us to give us all our information” :evil: ! It’s been fifteen years of complaining about the same thing, and yet the industry keeps moving forward. Why not save the complaints to help shape the industry as it moves forward, instead of complaining about something it will never be again?


Your argument is like saying we should never protest the government because they're going to whatever they want anyway. Which is false.

In fact these "complaints" have had considerable impact. They have been the only thing that's prevented the companies from completely having their way with us. Remember Microsoft wanted to wipe out physical media with its always-online Xbox One? That blow-back changed the course of the industry, temporarily or not.

And the consumers are not just complaining but they are choosing with their wallets. Part of the reason the Switch has been such a runaway hit was because of its physical media. When people spend money they want something to show for it. Hence there is still a thriving physical media market for games new and old.

I'm not saying technology won't continue down a digital path, but we need to have a say to make sure we're not getting a raw deal. The internet is a tool to do that. If something doesn't seem right, people should speak up. And if it looks like a bunch of bitching and complaining, so be it.

David
Posts: 181
Joined: April 20th, 2015, 3:10 am

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby David » April 9th, 2020, 12:49 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:Your argument is like saying we should never protest the government because they're going to whatever they want anyway. Which is false.

Nah, didn't say that. I'm saying you're complaining about patches, digital distribution in general, and consoles continuing to rely on the internet, which is not going to change. I'm saying being that things are moving in that direction, I'd rather complain about shaping the industry as it moves in that direction. And for the record I'm all about enacting change in the government.

VideoGameCritic wrote:In fact these "complaints" have had considerable impact. They have been the only thing that's prevented the companies from completely having their way with us. Remember Microsoft wanted to wipe out physical media with its always-online Xbox One? That blow-back changed the course of the industry, temporarily or not.

Right, that's what I'm saying. People didn't demand for no patches, and no digital distribution. They demanded that an always online requirement was stupid. That's the difference.

VideoGameCritic wrote:And the consumers are not just complaining but they are choosing with their wallets. Part of the reason the Switch has been such a runaway hit was because of its physical media. When people spend money they want something to show for it. Hence there is still a thriving physical media market for games new and old.

Is it? You can still get physical medial with the other two consoles, and digital game sales even on Switch I believe are pretty significant and trending upwards. Is there data out there that supports that physical media on Switch is specifically benefitting it more than the other consoles?

bluenote
Posts: 149
Joined: August 14th, 2015, 5:16 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby bluenote » April 9th, 2020, 2:34 pm

VideoGameCritic wrote:bluenote - Is your message serious? Look at what you wrote.

Look at your first point - "buy a game, go through a 45 min process, and play". 20 years ago you would have thought this was a joke. I have to perform a bunch of maintenance chores and wait a long period of time to play a game I BOUGHT? Any 1992 gamer would have laughed you out of the room. Yet it has become the norm. Apparently our time isn't worth as much as it used to be.



The 1992 gamer would have laughed you out of the room if that applied to a 1992 game. We're talking a 2020 game that is a hundred times larger and more complex and is made by hundreds of people over a course of 3 or 4 years.

Tron
Posts: 596
Joined: April 9th, 2015, 8:02 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby Tron » April 9th, 2020, 10:19 pm

I for one will never get tired of the Critic, or anyone else for that matter, complaining about the internet, DLC, patches, digital distribution and all that. It feels like for every person that complains 50 more just say, “That’s just the way it is.”

User avatar
Retro STrife
Posts: 1666
Joined: August 3rd, 2015, 7:40 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby Retro STrife » April 9th, 2020, 10:53 pm

I'll never forget something someone said in 2000... I was a member of another forum (which is long since dead) and the Microsoft Xbox was announced. It was a huge announcement with Microsoft entering the gaming world and gave us plenty of fodder for debate. After the graphical power, the next biggest selling points were the hard drive and the online capabilities. Most of us thought those were awesome features. But that day a guy on the forums made a good point -- he was very worried that this was the end of the industry as we knew it... video game consoles were turning into PC's and, worst of all in his opinion, developers would release subpar products and start to heavily patch games like they did in the PC industry. Hard drives finally made that possible in a way memory cards couldn't. Pretty prophetic back then.. the Xbox only used patches sparingly and pretty reasonably, but it really came on strong with the generation after it.

On the other hand, if you asked me to pick the most important advancement in gaming since 2000, I'd say it's been the addition and growth of online gaming, hands down. It comes with a lot of annoyances, but I think a lot of them are necessary to make the online experience possible. I like to retro game like its 1995, but I don't want my modern gaming going back to 1995. But I also agree with the VGC that the option to avoid online should be there for the people that want it, especially when not everyone has internet access. Some people like to be bugged to go online (i.e., if they didn't realize they were disconnected), but there should be a choice in the "options" menu to turn off those notifications. Personally I can live with the current state of things, but I do worry it'll get much worse. Games going all-digital is my biggest worry, both because we stop owning the games and because they become much harder to preserve.

User avatar
Retro STrife
Posts: 1666
Joined: August 3rd, 2015, 7:40 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby Retro STrife » April 9th, 2020, 11:00 pm

Tron wrote:I for one will never get tired of the Critic, or anyone else for that matter, complaining about the internet, DLC, patches, digital distribution and all that. It feels like for every person that complains 50 more just say, “That’s just the way it is.”


Somebody's gotta keep reminding us. I'm just amazed when I see a lot of comments online from gamers who love owning all their games digitally and say "why do we even need discs anymore?" Microsoft loves guys like that and it's pretty shocking that we've gotten to that point. But I think the average gamer thinks about the present and the future, and could care less about the past.
With a forum like this, with more retro gamers and collectors, there's just a completely different perspective more rooted in considering the past too.

OzGamer
Posts: 40
Joined: November 2nd, 2016, 7:41 pm

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby OzGamer » April 10th, 2020, 12:57 am

I purchased Cuphead last night. I started playing it and my internet dropped out, I couldn't continue. The game requires online activity to play. This morning, my internet connection was fine, but Xbox Live was down temporarily. I still couldn't play it. Games requiring you to be online are a hassle.

TheEagleXIII
Posts: 129
Joined: December 22nd, 2019, 9:33 am

Re: You Have to Go Online

Postby TheEagleXIII » April 10th, 2020, 11:00 am

OzGamer wrote:I purchased Cuphead last night. I started playing it and my internet dropped out, I couldn't continue. The game requires online activity to play. This morning, my internet connection was fine, but Xbox Live was down temporarily. I still couldn't play it. Games requiring you to be online are a hassle.


This.

I still think a big issue is that the internet is an essential utility these days, but doesn't have the availability or reliability of an essential utility.

Gaming these days treats internet connectivity like it treats, say, electricity, i.e. everyone gets the same electricity, outages are rare, etc. But not everyone has access to the same internet speeds and reliability, even if they can afford it.

Games are purposely designed to ‘influence’ you into being online at every possible moment, to the point it impacts your ability to use it - let alone play it - offline. And they’re purposely designed to manipulate gamers into being online - because that’s where they can sell you extra content, that’s where your friends can see you playing a game they may or may not have. It increases product awareness.

Let’s also not forget how the internet has affected games themselves. The online experience often gets prioritised over the offline experience. Developers can rush a game out that’s buggy and patch them later. Developers can intentionally release games with less content so they can sell you extra later on. Then there’s microtransactions, loot boxes and pay to win or at least be competitive.

Games are so heavily monetised these days and I think that’s as much of an issue for me. Especially when monetising receives equal, if not greater focus, over actual game development, e.g. surely GTA V online will have ate into RockStar’s development on GTA VI.

The internet allows them to exploit this, which is why they don’t want to make it seem like being offline is an option.


Return to “Video Games General”