Mario 35 Anniversary

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MSR1701
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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby MSR1701 » September 29th, 2020, 11:01 am

VicViper wrote:
CharlieR wrote:I was just about to post about if it sunshine had any other character in it as the main protagonist, it probably would not have been as well-received... so great minds think alike. I wonder what would happen if if it was an entry in the Sonic series?

I just started replaying it on this collection, so we will see if my opinion changes. I've owned it a few times for the gamecube but could never get into it. I wanted to like it, since it is part of the main Mario series, but it just wasn't really that fun. I just remember thinking everything felt like a chore, and it just didn't feel like a Mario game.

What I find really interesting is that some people say this is their favorite 3d Mario game. Really? Better than 64, either of the galaxy games, or 3d world? I guess people like the exploration, the turbo nozzle, etc. I just don't see it.


I'd say I prefer Sunshine over 64 because 64's level design is for the most part either generic, simplistic, plain bad, or just not very memorable at all. 64 also has a bunch of Stars that just feel like filler that wasn't thought through, hence why in the DS remake some of them were removed (yes, removed. It might have 150 stars, but it did remove some of 64's lesser content as well).

64's remembered well for its controls and its early "free-roaming" aspect, but beyond that, the levels aren't really all that great themselves overall. That's not to say there aren't good ones, but they're drowned in a sea of okay/mediocre.

You'll find me dead in the water before you hear me say that Dire Dire Docks is a good world, it's a freaking chore to go from the start of the level to the submarine area pretty much every time. It'd be something if it had any challenge to it, but you just swim straight for nearly a minute to get half of the stars in that world, and the rest aren't all that much more involved.

However, I'll admit that while Sunshine's main content is great, the 100% is 200% not worth it. The blue coins are terribly implemented, and there are a few duds too. I can see why some people don't like some of the gimmicky missions, but I'd at least say it gives the game more personality, and 64 could've used some of that too to make it less plain.


Given that Mario 64 was exploring new game design areas that were not established yet, I find it hard to be hyper critical of the design. Mario 64 (and it's sibling in development, Zelda OoT) were designed early in the development era of full 3D adventure/platformers, and quickly became the benchmark for standard design of their respective areas.

That said, I agree that the 100% of SS looks to be tedious as heck; I found a blue coin mark early in the main hub right after the first chase with Shadow Mario, and either I need an upgrade to get both it and its matching Blue Coin without as much pain, or I need to find a way to invert the blasted camera controls so that I can easily do the water belly slide.

jon
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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby jon » September 30th, 2020, 12:05 pm

I don’t think Super Mario Sunshine is the type of game to collect everything in the game. I’ve been critical of Super Mario 64 but I did play it a lot recently. I agree levels like the one with the submarine are tedious but I love the graphics so it makes up for it. SM64 is a great achievement but it did come out in late 1996 which kind of isn’t as amazing as if it came out in 1995 when the “Ultra 64” was supposed to come out.

There are some stars that are really easy. I think SM64 was rushed and maybe that’s why the N64 release date got pushed back. Maybe that’s why there are some easy stars to get and the game isn’t as fun as it could be.

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MSR1701
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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby MSR1701 » September 30th, 2020, 12:38 pm

jon wrote:I don’t think Super Mario Sunshine is the type of game to collect everything in the game. I’ve been critical of Super Mario 64 but I did play it a lot recently. I agree levels like the one with the submarine are tedious but I love the graphics so it makes up for it. SM64 is a great achievement but it did come out in late 1996 which kind of isn’t as amazing as if it came out in 1995 when the “Ultra 64” was supposed to come out.

There are some stars that are really easy. I think SM64 was rushed and maybe that’s why the N64 release date got pushed back. Maybe that’s why there are some easy stars to get and the game isn’t as fun as it could be.


I disagree about Mario 64 being rushed, as the game was in development for several years leading up to the final print and production phase of game development. A game on the scale of SM64 was revolutionary at the time, as 3D game design was still being explored and tested, with games like Jumping Flash, Crash Bandicoot and Bubsy 3D among the early pioneers of what was possible with current hardware and knowledge. Crash Bandicoot limited itself to side scrolling and corridor runs to maximize the hardware it ran on, Jumping Flash attempted to merge the Doom concept with an adventure/platformer angle, and Bubsy 3D attempted to push the limits of the Playstation, forgetting that the Dev kit was NOT the same as the consumer hardware.

Like many early 3D games, upon release they were hailed as great and awesome, and I will admit that Mario 64, despite some goofy models (Goombas and Bowser) holds up rather well, thanks to the art style. That it is still very playable is a good thing, though I will admit that I have no plans to attempt 120 stars, recalling that several were more trouble than it would be worth.

BTW, I love that almost all posts in this thread discuss either Mario 64 or Sunshine, but omit Galaxy...

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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby jon » September 30th, 2020, 5:55 pm

The N64 was supposed to be released in 1995. It was called the “Ultra 64”. I think one reason it kept getting delayed is because of games not being done in time. There really shouldn’t be too many reasons why it kept getting delayed.

When you look at SM64, it kind of seems like a rush job. There’s some ridiculously easy stars to get. The boss fights with Bowser are ridiculously short and easy. And that thing with finding Yoshi seems like it was just put in there at the last minute. It seems like there could’ve been more to the game. There could’ve been playable Luigi, and more to do with Yoshi. They probably had to meet serious deadlines and I can’t think of many reasons why the N64 got Released in ‘96 instead of ‘95 besides the games in development were taking too long.

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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby MSR1701 » September 30th, 2020, 6:14 pm

jon wrote:The N64 was supposed to be released in 1995. It was called the “Ultra 64”. I think one reason it kept getting delayed is because of games not being done in time. There really shouldn’t be too many reasons why it kept getting delayed.

When you look at SM64, it kind of seems like a rush job. There’s some ridiculously easy stars to get. The boss fights with Bowser are ridiculously short and easy. And that thing with finding Yoshi seems like it was just put in there at the last minute. It seems like there could’ve been more to the game. There could’ve been playable Luigi, and more to do with Yoshi. They probably had to meet serious deadlines and I can’t think of many reasons why the N64 got Released in ‘96 instead of ‘95 besides the games in development were taking too long.


I disagree. Development of a system is not an easy thing to do. Granted, the N64 had only 2 titles at launch and multiple titles delayed for polishing/development. That said, the system itself was pushed back at least once due to system design (we know now that the system was a heat plant).

However, remember Nintendo's policy of being accessible to all gamers of all skills. Having easy stars helps inexperienced gamers feel a sense of accomplishment and a drive to keep going.

For missing elements like Luigi, it was long thought that due to limitations of the time (memory, programming) and development time that he could not be implemented. Recently this was confirmed from a data leak from Nintendo. Had Nintendo had a bit more time, sure he could have added more. However, Nintendo has a history of taking unused ideas and storing them for future use (sample - Super Mario 3 originally was to have Yoshi (among other elements that were dropped), and the idea would carry over to the next project.

(BTW, Super Mario All Stars SNES was developed from Super Mario World development... The team working on World (aka Super Mario Bros 4) reworked SMB3 onto the SNES to familiarize themselves with the SNES for practice before working on SMB4.)

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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby jon » September 30th, 2020, 7:03 pm

I just did research and on Wikipedia it says that the N64 got delayed from December 1995 because the lead programmer of Super Mario 64 asked for more time. Apparently in August 1995 the game was only half done.

I’ve played SM64 a lot of times getting all 120 stars. And it clearly was unfinished in my opinion. One thing is when you see Yoshi he gives you 100 lives but it’s pointless since it’s so easy to get a bunch of lives and you don’t even keep those 100 lives if you stop playing and save the game. Then there’s things like the Bowser confrontations. They could’ve added more to that and still kept it easy. It really was way too quick. The final confrontation takes seconds if you know what you’re doing. Previous 2d Super Mario games took a lot longer. The final boss fight on Banjo Kazooie takes a long time, maybe 15 minutes. All of the characters in the levels you have to beat up are really easy, There probably could’ve been more music. Overall it just seemed rushed.

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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby MSR1701 » October 1st, 2020, 7:45 am

jon wrote:I just did research and on Wikipedia it says that the N64 got delayed from December 1995 because the lead programmer of Super Mario 64 asked for more time. Apparently in August 1995 the game was only half done.

I’ve played SM64 a lot of times getting all 120 stars. And it clearly was unfinished in my opinion. One thing is when you see Yoshi he gives you 100 lives but it’s pointless since it’s so easy to get a bunch of lives and you don’t even keep those 100 lives if you stop playing and save the game. Then there’s things like the Bowser confrontations. They could’ve added more to that and still kept it easy. It really was way too quick. The final confrontation takes seconds if you know what you’re doing. Previous 2d Super Mario games took a lot longer. The final boss fight on Banjo Kazooie takes a long time, maybe 15 minutes. All of the characters in the levels you have to beat up are really easy, There probably could’ve been more music. Overall it just seemed rushed.


Good Points.

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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby Voor » October 1st, 2020, 2:24 pm

Anyone try the Mario 35 battle royale? I played it for a while and it’s pretty fun!

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MSR1701
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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby MSR1701 » October 1st, 2020, 2:37 pm

Voor wrote:Anyone try the Mario 35 battle royale? I played it for a while and it’s pretty fun!

Oh, that released today! Need to download, I forgot!

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Re: Mario 35 Anniversary

Postby Voor » October 2nd, 2020, 11:46 am

I played a few rounds and it’s pretty fun. It’s one of those games where you feel like you should win every time and feel like a doofus when you don’t. Lol.

I came in 1st a few times. Only issue, is that the games feel longer than they should be.


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