Okay, we can chat about STAR TREK here

[m0zart1]

[QUOTE=Varian]Anyway, no one should be worried about being a 'Star Trek' nerd. The series had a lot of class and will probably be the last time we'll see a TV sci-fi show have such a large budget (production quality on Star Trek is amazing although the writing was not).[/QUOTE]
 
I am holding out a lot of hope for the Star Wars television series which is in production and should start airing episodes in 2008.  It has targetted 100 one-hour episodes, told in three to four episode blocks, specifically intended to tell shorter stories which take place between episodes 3 and 4.  Among these will be Boba Fett's early years after Attack of the Clones, and some of the fates of a few Jedi Knights remaining after Order 66 was executed.
 
I am more of an armchair fan of Star Trek, though I do have some issues with the prevailing politics and ethical presumptions in the series.  I have similar (though not as serious) issues with those presented in the Star Wars universe as well.  I think those are what keep me from completely embracing the vision of the future that Star Trek promotes.

[Alienblue]

As to "politics" and Ethics in Star Trek, THAT WAS WHY TOS WAS CREATED! Gene R. wanted to comment on our society but knew he could not do that in a "serious" crime/western/war drama. By using fantasy, he was able to explore-without necessarily saying what is good or bad, things like Racism- the episide in which those two white/black guys hate each other because one is white on the "right" side-they never said one was superior, just that their hate destroyed them both. War, theft, drug abuse and womens rights were all handled in a fantasy enviornment and handled well -like when Kirk was split into "passive" and "agressive" parts. The agresive was of course, mean BUT passive was inept, soft, unable to function; they two halves needed each OTHER. I will always think of Trek as the BEST storytelling from serious topics to comdey like the TRIBBLES!

[m0zart1]

[QUOTE=Alienblue]As to "politics" and Ethics in Star Trek, THAT WAS WHY TOS WAS CREATED! Gene R. wanted to comment on our society but knew he could not do that in a "serious" crime/western/war drama. By using fantasy, he was able to explore-without necessarily saying what is good or bad, things like Racism- the episide in which those two white/black guys hate each other because one is white on the "right" side-they never said one was superior, just that their hate destroyed them both. War, theft, drug abuse and womens rights were all handled in a fantasy enviornment and handled well -like when Kirk was split into "passive" and "agressive" parts. The agresive was of course, mean BUT passive was inept, soft, unable to function; they two halves needed each OTHER. I will always think of Trek as the BEST storytelling from serious topics to comdey like the TRIBBLES![/QUOTE]

I realize full well that there are some really good messages in Star Trek, ESPECIALLY the original series.  I think the fact that the original series was so groundbreaking in terms of the messages it delivered is what keeps it relevant to this day.  Still, there are some messages, especially in the later series, which I can't accept for reasons that are tied up into every fiber of my being.  I don't really want to elaborate (for fear of starting a war).  I just was trying to explain, at least in part, why I am not a huge Trek fan.  I do enjoy Trek, just not to the extent that many of you do.
 
One of the things I like about Star Wars was how it really wasn't just a sci-fi, but a full spiritual journey.  Plus, it was obviously a galaxy modelled similarly to our experiences today.  It doesn't try to pretend that human nature will change in some mystical way if we, for instance, "do away" with money, as if money were the cause of all evil, and removing it was tantamount to a collective labotomy on the human race.

[Alienblue]

MoZART: I agree with you fully that signifigant messages tended to get lost in the special effects glitz of later Treks. The Next Gen still had a Few but it was MUCH more "This is wrong!" in your face then TOS, which made it's point subtlely -like Racism- look at all the ethnic diversity of the cast, white, black, asian, russian, irish, scottish- yet the ONLY character who was hated for what he was, was SPOCK. Obviously there are no REAL Vulcans so no one was offended! (Spock was hated when it was realized that the Romulans and Vulcans are related)...but speaking of romulans on TNG, one fave episode was an "enemy mine" type one in which Geordi and a Romulan had to work together to save their lives....But with DS9, Voyager and Enterprise The "messages" became more and more diluted into the storylines-they still had good STORIES but the purpose of TOS was lost, I think.

[m0zart1]

[QUOTE=Alienblue]but speaking of romulans on TNG, one fave episode was an "enemy mine" type one in which Geordi and a Romulan had to work together to save their lives[/QUOTE]
 
Ah yes.  Now you've hit on one of my favorite all-time Sci-Fi films, "Enemy Mine".  The special effects are laughable today, but there aren't that many films in the Sci-Fi genre that can actually move me the way that one did.

[feilong801]

But m0zart, I like your "wars!"
 
Even when I disagree with your points, you express yourself in a thorough and entertaining manner. Also fair, IMO.
 
 

[m0zart1]

[QUOTE=feilong80]But m0zart, I like your "wars!"
 
Even when I disagree with your points, you express yourself in a thorough and entertaining manner. Also fair, IMO.[/QUOTE]
 
Why, thank you!

[Quiet Flight]

I just can't get into Voyager. On a recommendation I watched some Enterprise episodes with Bret Spinner and his little geneticly engineered children. I found it quite enjoyable.