The Video Game Critic

Its been posted here before, when you 'buy' a game on the Virtual Console, you don't actually own it, you can't trade it, sell it, etc. That is crap, and I think it will get worse.

Soon we will know if the original games that are to be released for Wii will follow that model as well, seems likely they will. Looking down the road I can see the day when portables may eventually use internal memory like an i-pod for game storage, no actual cartridge or disc to own.

It is a general trend that is slowly growing today to offer downloadable alternatives to the old 'brick and motar' model model, you can cut out the middleman, sell directly to the consumer, and save time and money manufacturing, packaging, and distributing the game.

But how much of these savings will be passed on to the consumer? I save a ton of money selling and trading games, the saving grace financially for games is how well good ones hold their value over time, rare games increase in value.

Its been well documented that in the '80's Nintendo naively and foolishly tried to shut down game rental and 2nd hand stores by legal means to increase game sales. Now it seen technological advances may well do it for them, and the rest of the industry. I think it will be slow in coming, and maybe not absolute, but I think it is the future. What say you, General Board?

I like to be able to go to used game stores and search bargain bins for some good used 5 dollar games.  I like how the stores are in competition with each and that brings good sales to the patient gamers like me.  With online downloads, there is only one seller, and there never seems to be a sell.  I said I bought games for bargain bins for 5 bucks in stores, that seems to be the online going rate for one map pack of 2 map! insane! 

They released the expansion pack for oblivion on Live for 30 bucks.  Thats a descent price for a expansion pack online, but will it ever go down?   Will it stay at 30 bucks forever.  It seems that the prices Live items never go down.  Why should they?  They have no competition.

I really really hope that the industry doesn't go the way of online purchases only.  I know if it does, games will be more expensive as I can't get used games and look for sales.  And I don't want to deal with trying to transfer games for machines.  For example I recently reformated my harddrive.  I do that alot to clean out the clutter and keep my machine going fast.  Well this time when I went to install Windows, they said my windows key had been used too many times, and I had to rebuy windows.  I called and complained and told them its my right to reformat my harddrive as many times as I want.  After enough complaining with the Indian woman who couldn't speak English, they finally gave me a new key.   And I just can't wait to have to do this with online video game purchases.  And video game companies come and go, so what would happen if a disaster like this happened with your game, and the company went out of business? Whenever you give a game company DRM rights, they abuse them, as Microsoft is currently doing.  Only accept the real deal, a hard copy of the game. 

My only personal experience with this issue is when Half-Life 2 came out for the PC... you could buy it in a standard retail box, with CD, game manual, etc. for $50.  You could also buy it online directly via STEAM, where you got no disk, no box, no manual, and Valve saved a ton of $$$ by not having to deal with printing, distributing, etc.  The price?  $45.  Yep, they passed on a whopping $5 out of the probably $15-$20 that they saved by letting you download it directly from them.  Needless to say, I bought an actual physical copy (after it had been out awhile and I could get it cheaper... I never EVER pay more than $40 for a video game, and very rarely pay even that much).  My sense is that most companies will only throw us a bone when it comes to price reduction via direct downloads, and then not even that once we've become accustomed to it and we no longer have an option of a purchasing a physical game.  I think offering directly downloadable games is a Godsend for small, mom-and-pop game developers who otherwise wouldn't be able to buy shelf space in a retail store, but they need to be realistic about how much they charge if they want that business model to work.

From what I've seen/read about the Wii offering downloadable games and the prices they ask, I think I would be much more inclined to simply buy the 'real' game from someone off Ebay or at a garage sale.
Sudz

Yeah, I've been warning about this trend for some time.  The industry is actively pushing the idea that "people REALLY want" to buy their music and games on-line. Don't believe it.
 
Yes, a lot of people do, but I think they're the ones who are already doing it.  But the majority of consumers prefer to get something tangible for their money - something that doesn't go away when your drive crashes, or when a server on the net is taken down.

I think the VC games are great for people who aren't interested in collecting consoles, or for those looking for hard-to-find games (like Neo Geo or Turbografx).  But paying $10-$15 for a old Nintendo game?  That doesn't seem like a great deal to me.

The good news is, games won't go completely on-line anytime soon, and personally, I don't think it will ever happen.  Just because it's the current trend does NOT mean it will continue on its current course.  These things often level off.  Even the most outspoken advocates say that games will continue to be sold at traditional stores for at least the next 10 years.

[QUOTE=The Video Game Critic]Yeah, I've been warning about this trend for some time.  The industry is actively pushing the idea that "people REALLY want" to buy their music and games on-line. Don't believe it.
 
Yes, a lot of people do, but I think they're the ones who are already doing it.  But the majority of consumers prefer to get something tangible for their money - something that doesn't go away when your drive crashes, or when a server on the net is taken down.

I think the VC games are great for people who aren't interested in collecting consoles, or for those looking for hard-to-find games (like Neo Geo or Turbografx).  But paying $10-$15 for a old Nintendo game?  That doesn't seem like a great deal to me.

The good news is, games won't go completely on-line anytime soon, and personally, I don't think it will ever happen.  Just because it's the current trend does NOT mean it will continue on its current course.  These things often level off.  Even the most outspoken advocates say that games will continue to be sold at traditional stores for at least the next 10 years.

[/QUOTE]

Nintendo games on the VC aren't as high as you said.   5 for NES 8 for SNES and 10 for N64.    Still not a good deal when compared to the Sega Genesis collection which had about 28 games for 20 bucks (I found it for 10)   And Don't forget emulation.

And I agree that in 10 years most games will still be avalible in store.  But I believe a sizable minority won't.  That trend has already started.   For example you can't buy the new Oblivion expansion pack in stores, which is almost unheard of.  I expect this to continue.

Being a fairly serious collector, I understand the value of owning a game. There is nothing sweeter than a mint condition Saturn game . However I also understand the importance of making classic video games open to a wider market, for those children who don't know Sonic in 2d, Root Beer Tapper and Bubsy. This is the purpose of the Virtual Console.



Although I own 2 Genesis consoles and 2 copies of Streets of Rage, I also own it on the VC. And its a rip roaring good time. I actually PREFER SOR 1 on the VC because the A button is used for the special, being across the controller by the D-pad it is NEVER hit by accident this way (which ALWAYS happened during the original), considering you only got one per level/life, this is a major improvement!

[QUOTE=The Video Game Critic]I think the VC games are great for people who aren't interested in collecting consoles, or for those looking for hard-to-find games (like Neo Geo or Turbografx).  But paying $10-$15 for a old Nintendo game?  That doesn't seem like a great deal to me.[/QUOTE]

Well $10 is the max.  The pricing scheme is as follows:

NES:      $ 5
TG-16:   $ 6
Genesis: $ 8
SNES:    $ 8
N64:      $10

It looks like NeoGeo games will be added soon, as they already have been added to the Wii in Japan.  I don't know what the pricing scheme for that system will be in the US.

The only way I would even marginally buy into a download only model is if it is download then copy to movable media (disc, flash drive, special ROM cart, etc.).

[QUOTE=Steerforth]Its been well documented that in the '80's Nintendo naively and foolishly tried to shut down game rental and 2nd hand stores by legal means to increase game sales. Now it seen technological advances may well do it for them, and the rest of the industry. I think it will be slow in coming, and maybe not absolute, but I think it is the future. What say you, General Board?
[/QUOTE]

You don't remember the '80s then. There was an anti-Japanese slant in the US and Congress happily complied. When a new law that was passed, Nintendo and video games were ignored. With movie rentals, the makers of the movies get a piece when their movie is rented. Game companies didn't. So someone could buy a huge stack of video games (which were often in short supply if one remembers the shortages and all), and make a business off of it. The game makers would get nothing unlike the movie companies. This is why Nintendo of America tried to move in and stop it.

But anyway, you've got the Virtual Console completely wrong. No one is stopping you from buying old or used games from the 8-bit, 16-bit, or N64 generations. The Virtual Console is Nintendo's solution to the emulation and rom piracy sites. The best way to beat piracy is to offer a better product. The VC games have the following advantages over their originals:

1) You do not have to drag out or connect the original console to the TV.
2) Since it is completely digital, you can easily access it within Wii's Menu and doesn't require one to get up and change cartridges. It is fun to go through various VC games in a single sitting without getting up.
3) Each VC game is given its own emulator programmed to it. This is the opposite of the rom sites where they have one standard emulator with all the roms going through it.
4) The VC emulation has updated the emulation to true low res (which you do not see in compilation cds). Ben Turner and Simon talk about this in more detail.
5) No dead battery issue.
6) Superior performance in some games. N64 games have their frame rate sped up which is clearly seen in games like Mario Kart 64.
7) Japanese only titles will be released on the VC starting with Battle Lode Runner on the Turbographix 16 this month.

The downsides would be...

1) Have to pay for it unlike roms. The price is around the same for old cartridges and, for rare games, a steal.
2) Games are tethered to your Wii. You cannot take them out, sell them, or play them on a friend's Wii.

And that's pretty much it. It would be a mistake to think of the VC as the digital download train Sony and Microsoft are using. VC is Nintendo's solution to rom piracy just as i-tunes was Apple's solution to Napster's mp3 piracy. VC and i-tunes untie the legal knots that allow these old games to be able to be purchased once again.

VC really is having an effect. It is allowing companies like Hudson to come back. It is allowing brand revival (such as interest in Bonk and Kid Icarus will allow new games based on those properties). My VC collection is filled with shmups from different systems and it is fun to be able to hop from Soldier Blade to Gradius to R-Type III to Biohazard without ever getting up! The short arcade games that fill the VC are excellent when I don't feel like playing a long game (which most games are these days).

I've noticed that those who complain about the VC do not tend to use it. Those who use it tend to rave about it.

Collectors don't like it but who cares about them? Games are meant to be played, not stashed away like a trophy. I would love to see Radiant Silvergun put on a digital download service just to crash the ebay price of that ridiculous $200 for that game.

I think if you don't like downloaded content, that's fine. But expecting a way to sell or trade it in is unrealistic.

"Soon we will know if the original games that are to be released for Wii will follow that model as well"

There's been talk that new games for classic consoles might be a possibility on the VC, but this is the first I've heard of original Wii games following that model. Its unrealistic as well since last I heard the Wii only has 512MB of storage and just 10-25 year old games are already filling some people's storage space after a few months of VC releases. If you're alking about the rumored memory expansion for the Wii, Nintendo is as likely to expect 100% of gamers to buy that as MS is to expect everyone to buy their hd-dvd add-on and start putting games on hd-dvd You won't be finding anything Wii specific beyond classic stuff and XBLA style deals coming to the Wii's download service I think its safe to say.

"see the day when portables may eventually use internal memory like an i-pod for game storage, no actual cartridge or disc to own."

That sounds fine to me as long as I'm allowed to back up my content in case someday I can't redownload it from the company.

"But how much of these savings will be passed on to the consumer?"

They're businesses, they're not a charity designed to support gamers. If a developer can come up with a model that increases their profits by not using traditional means like finding a publisher, its fine I think since it could mean more games and maybe games being released that otherwise wouldn't of been profitable in North America.

"They released the expansion pack for oblivion on Live for 30 bucks.  Thats a descent price for a expansion pack online, but will it ever go down?   Will it stay at 30 bucks forever. "

Seems unlikely, they've already given some of their content for free over Live, and there is already talk about a GOTY edition being released that includes all content for a lower price in the future. So remaining at $30 seems unlikely.

"You could also buy it online directly via STEAM, where you got no disk, no box, no manual, and Valve saved a ton of $$$ by not having to deal with printing, distributing, etc.  The price?  $45.  Yep, they passed on a whopping $5 out of the probably $15-$20 that they saved by letting you download it directly from them."

Just what did you really expect? They still have cost of hosting the content, and most of the price for a game comes from the development cost and marketing cost which remain unchanged. 5$ sounds about right for the savings provided for not having to print a manual and press a DVD. Those services don't cost 20$, not by a long shot. And the whole point of Steam was to increase Valve's profits by bypassing a publisher and retailers, if they brought all those savings to the consumer, it would seem pointless.

I hope both models continue to coexist like they do now, I think they benefit each other as long as it doesn't sway completely to downloaded content.