The Video Game Critic

I agree with Ed.  I don't understand why anyone would care to sign a petition complaining that a game was being released on multiple systems vice a single system, unless they're just incredibly immature and were looking forward to dancing around and chanting 'in your face in your face' as they held aloft the game released only on THEIR system.  If you are a fan a particular system and you're getting good games, why does it matter to you if other people owning other systems will also get to play them?  Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Regarding Viva Pinata, I also heard this was supposed to be a great game and the VGC should really consider picking it up if it's only $20; but, in defense of the 360, any game with a target audience of little kids released on a platformed aimed squarely at adults is going to have issues no matter how good it is.  I mean, isn't Viva Pinata based on a cartoon by the same name produced literally for early grade-school kids?  I see zero appeal just based on name for anyone over the age of 12 to buy this game, and you can guess how many sub-12 year olds own an Xbox 360.
Sudz

JLH what are you on?  Oblivion, Table Tennis, Dead Rising, Geometry Wars, Marble Blast Ultra, Kameo, Tomb Raider Legend, Dead or Alive 4, Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth all sold like hot cakes on the 360.  The XBox had way more western RPGs than the PS2 had.  What you said just reeks of bias.  In the UK Viva Pinata sold very well.  Just because it is available for cheap now doesn't mean a thing.

Oh and Blue Dragon was never going to be a multi million seller in the west, I think most people like myself are waiting for Eternal Sonata or Lost Odyssey to provide their eastern RPG fix.  Despite this Blue Dragon broke its sales estimates in Japan.

[QUOTE=bluemonkey]JLH what are you on?  Oblivion, Table Tennis, Dead Rising, Geometry Wars, Marble Blast Ultra, Kameo, Tomb Raider Legend, Dead or Alive 4, Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth all sold like hot cakes on the 360.  The XBox had way more western RPGs than the PS2 had.  What you said just reeks of bias.  In the UK Viva Pinata sold very well.  Just because it is available for cheap now doesn't mean a thing.

Oh and Blue Dragon was never going to be a multi million seller in the west, I think most people like myself are waiting for Eternal Sonata or Lost Odyssey to provide their eastern RPG fix.  Despite this Blue Dragon broke its sales estimates in Japan.
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How was what I said biased.  All I was saying was that base audience of Xbox owners shun games that aren't M rated and don't feature titties and guns.  Sure thats a pretty big generalization, but its somewhat true.  Microsoft doesn't try to hide the fact they go after the mature audience and the sales of their games certainly reflect this.

Here is the complete list of games that have sold at least a million units worldwide.

Gears of War - Rated M
The Elder Scrolls IV - Rated M
Call of Duty 2 - Rated M
Madden 07 - Rated E
Perfect Dark Zero - Rated M
Saints Row - Rated M
Dead or Alive 4 - Rated M
Tom Clancy's GRAW - Rated M
Dead Rising - Rated M
Lost Plantet - Rated T

Clearly you can see what xbox 360 owners buy.  That was the only point I was trying to make.  The other games you mentioned may have sold a few hundred thousand units but that is considered a failure by most publishers these days.

Viva Pinata came out in what November?  I can't think of another game that has dropped in price so fast on the 360.  Hell, Perfect Dark Zero came out at launch and its still $30 and that the Greatest Hits version.  The game has sold like utter crap and they are trying to salavage what they can from it.  There is no way you can spin Viva Pinata into anything but a failure.  They tried to capture a younger audience and it crashed and burned.

How is Blue Dragon not supposed to sell multiple million units?  Do you have any idea how much money Microsoft spent to get that game?  They have very high expectations for it.  They didn't go opening there wallet to not make money in return.

Ok here goes:

-You said NOTHING about the rating of games, you talked purely about shooters and racers.   That list has quite a few of each.

-Tomb Raider Legend and Kameo are on the Classics lineup.  Kameo was not far behind PDZ in terms of sales.  I believe the 360 version was the biggest selling.

-Blue Dragon is a loss leader.  That game is not about profit but about providing more Japanese style games.  It is designed more for an eastern audience than a western one.

-If a game falls in price fast it usually means it has sold A LOT OF COPIES.  The first games to really fall in price are the biggest sellers because most people then have them.  Viva Pinata did well in the game sales charts in the UK.

-Do you have any idea what you are talking about?  Viva Pinata is a game aimed at adults.  Yes the marketing and visuals spin it towards kids but if you have read any of the interviews or watched any of the video interviews you should know that Rare made this game targeting the 20-30 male demographic.  I'm really surprised you don't know this.

[QUOTE=bluemonkey]Ok here goes:

-You said NOTHING about the rating of games, you talked purely about shooters and racers.   That list has quite a few of each.

-Tomb Raider Legend and Kameo are on the Classics lineup.  Kameo was not far behind PDZ in terms of sales.  I believe the 360 version was the biggest selling.

-Blue Dragon is a loss leader.  That game is not about profit but about providing more Japanese style games.  It is designed more for an eastern audience than a western one.

-If a game falls in price fast it usually means it has sold A LOT OF COPIES.  The first games to really fall in price are the biggest sellers because most people then have them.  Viva Pinata did well in the game sales charts in the UK.

-Do you have any idea what you are talking about?  Viva Pinata is a game aimed at adults.  Yes the marketing and visuals spin it towards kids but if you have read any of the interviews or watched any of the video interviews you should know that Rare made this game targeting the 20-30 male demographic.  I'm really surprised you don't know this.
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What are you talking about?  Since when in the world does a game that sells a ton of copies actually drop in price?  Gears of War came out around the exact same time, sold 10x as many copies as Viva Pinata and is still $60.  Viva has not sold well internationally...I don't care how well it selled in the UK, it is was a comercial failure.  Microsoft has openly admitted that it didn't reach the projected numbers for that title.

Also don't kid yourself about the game not being for kids.  Its rated E for everyone and its meant to be for families to play (they were going for the Animal Crossing crowd which actually IS 20-30 males and females), but the main demographic is for kids.  Its based on a children's televsion show, for pete's sake. 

Tomb Raider and Kameo may be on the Classics lineup, but neither of them cracked the million unit mark.  All I am saying is that shooters, racers and typically mature (violent) games sell better on the system.  Other genres sell decent, but they aren't what the core audience wants.  Microsoft knows this and they cater to them. 

Regardless of what you think Japanese RPGs have a huge following in the US.  Blue Dragon is a title that is expected to help lure the RPG crowd over to the 360.  It is one of the most important titles in Microsoft's lineup this year.

At this point the 360 and PS3 are not catering to the casual/mainstream crowd.  They just aren't.  I don't care what why slice, spin it, dice it...for lack of a better term those two systems are still targeting the "hardcore audience".

I read an interview with Allard about Viva Pinata.  The interviewer completely dismissed it and asked Allard if he was disappointed in Rare because of it. 

Allard's response was not so much surprising but a little unusual.  He said he knew the total number of games sold had been relatively small (several hundred thousand) but it's got a much longer tail in the sale cycle than they were expecting.  Meaning they'll still sell several extra thousand units over the life of the system versus people stop buying it altogether.  Whether that's true enough the game fits the much needed "E" for everyone niche which the 360 doesn't have enough of.  I've no interest in it but if I had kids I'd definitely buy it.

And having affordable good games in the $20 range is always a way to get more people to look at your system.

[QUOTE=ActRaiser] the game fits the much needed "E" for everyone niche which the 360 doesn't have enough of.  I've no interest in it but if I had kids I'd definitely buy it.



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As a huge Animal Crossing fan, this one is a no brainer as soon as I get the 360.  I'm glad a game like it exists for the system.  Whether or not extremely Japanese RPGs, Animal Crossing type games, etc sell well on the system, Microsoft has to start to get rid of the exact stereotype JLH is talking about, so they can hardly be faulted if it doesn't work right away.  The point isn't how many copies they sell right now; it's that the games exist at all.

As far as the sales in the UK go, well, Europeans can't help it if they happen to have better taste in games.  I mean, any area that generally prefers the Master System to the NES has to have good taste. 

JLH you seem to not understand some important aspects of business here.  When it comes to products that sell well they reach a point of saturation whereby they have sold to all the people that will pay full price for them.  Software is a form of increasing returns in that it costs little to produce more discs compared to the initial investment in production.  At this point in order to generate further revenue it is necessary to reduce the price of the product to sell to those who did not buy it at full price.

For example you see this on Amazon.  Case in point the Deftones album "Deftones" fell in price by 50% by the end of the preorder period.  As more sales were reached Amazon continued to reduce the price.

That's why the cheapest games on the 360 are some of its biggest sellers.  The likes of Call of Duty 2 and GRAW fell in price very quickly as did PDZ.  Because they were big sellers.

Actually Viva Pinatta was much more successul worldwide than it was in the US.  Besides several hundred thousand is a reasonable figure.  You have to remember there are still only 10 million 360s out there.  How many titles do you honestly expect to exceed the 1 million mark in a year and a half given such a small volume of machines?  How many PS2 games sold over a million given their massive install base?

It's not about kidding myself while visually the game is aimed at kids the gameplay is aimed at adults with a lot of depth to it.

The RPG crowd are already on the 360, ask any Bioware fan or Bethesda fan.

Yes Japanese RPGs are a big deal but outside of the few big name franchises the vast majority of Jap RPGs are ignored by the mainstream.  There've been plenty of articles with Jap developers worrying about the lack of demand for Jap style titles outside of Japan.  Why do you think Capcom is broadening it's portfolio so much?

Not to mention that Viva Pinata is not a success based on sales it is based on broadening the portfolio of the console.  It's all about providing choice.  The same way supermarkets sell value products at a loss.  They know that they are losing money on some customers who shop with them but getting the business is more important than making a profit on every person.  Because eventually that yields its own rewards.

Just to illustrate my point GRAW 2 which certainly isn't hurting for sales is now selling for HALF PRICE brand new, one month and two days after it launched.