The Video Game Critic

I accidentally threw out my Atari 2600 and games because I kept them in a black trash bag in the closet (real smart).  It didn't really matter though, because I had moved on and didn't think I'd ever want to play it again (HA!).  I remember giving a perfectly good Atari 1200XL and Atari 1040ST computer to Good Will, along with all the trimmings. In the early and mid 90's I would regularly "trade up" my consoles, selling the old ones for peanuts.  I wish I hadn't, but like another guy said, I probably needed the money at the time.  I also threw out piles of old EGM and Gamepro magazines, only to buy them all back at a premium years later.  Now I've learned my lesson, and I never get rid of anything!

Once upon a time, I threw out my Commodore 128 system, and all the disks!

I kept the monitor, though. I still have it and it makes a great little game monitor (it has composite input).

Hey, I got rid of Commodore 128 and monitor too, and I had some great software for it! I would LOVE to still own that! Also, I threw away a Timex-Sinclair computer, not that it was worth much, but it would still be nice to have.

The Virtual Console sounds awesome on the Wii. I love playing compilations of old games on the PS2 -- such as Activision Classics and the Genesis collection.

Does the VC have Genesis games too?

Hmm, let's see:

* My parents sold my Apple IIc years ago (early 90's, I think) to pay some bills IIRC;

* We sold my Mega Drive and Mega CD at a garage sale around '97 or so, which I regret;

* I was forced to throw out my Amiga 500 because its disk drive died--too much "percussive maintenance", methinks <sweatdrop>;

* We sold my first N64 a couple of months after buying it, because there weren't enough games on it that interested me--I didn't own one again until I got one as a Christmas gift a couple of years ago; and

* I bought a PSP last year, but returned it within a couple of days, for much the same reason above--not enough games that interested me.

* Also, my cousin, who lives out in western NSW, threw out his Commodore 64 a few years ago; I was quite heartbroken by this, as I 'd enjoyed playing it quite a few times when my family visited him and his parents (my uncle and aunt). I wish he'd told me he was getting rid of it first--I'd have been only too happy to take it off his hands. Like the Amiga, its disk drive was broken, but the cassette drive was still in perfect working order, and I could have easily gotten another disk drive off eBay or somewhere.

Sorry for the long post!

[QUOTE=m0zart]You are getting customer support for the Virtual Boy?  The last time I contacted them about the Virtual Boy, Nintendo made sure to tell me that the N64, Virtual Boy, SNES, and NES were no longer supported, and they could offer no assistance on the matter.[/quote]

A guy I know had one of the lens (crystal thingies?) broken in it and Nintendo did repair it. This was fairly recent as in a year or two ago.

[quote]Are you saying you never bought a PS2?  Those systems certainly don't last.  If you didn't, then you really missed out.[/quote]

I never bought a PS2 though my friends did. I don't feel I missed out since I found the majority of games to be dull minus a few. I felt this way about the Xbox, Gamecube, N64, and original Playstation.

One of the reasons for Wii's meteoric sales is because people like me getting interested in gaming again. The 3d revolution really soured gaming for me. I didn't like the controls and the games became longer and less intense (I prefer arcade type of games).

[quote]I think we all *believe* that a console should last at least 20 years, maybe more... but again, there's a difference between what we believe should happen and what the reality is.[/quote]

The reality is that if someone doesn't make a system to my desires, I do not buy the system!

[QUOTE]But, the Wii is made like a new system, not an old one.  And regardless of how much we might like them to, there WILL come a point when Nintendo will no longer support the Wii.  Have they promised that the VC will continue on future platforms and that we can transfer our games to them?  Hardly.[/quote]

VC is not a console; it is not a portable. VC is a whole new platform. Nintendo has said VC will continue.

I don't know if I could ever move my VC games to the successor of the Wii. But I do know that the functionality of my VC games on my Wii isn't dependent on Nintendo's support. Nintendo could fall off the Earth and I will still happily play my Soldier Blade. Contrast this to something like Xbox Live Arcade where much of the games' functionality is dependent on Microsoft's support (and you paying your Xbox Live fee). I'm not sure how it works for the PS3.

I have a hunch that the Wii will also be selling on the market longer than the generational cycle. Hot systems like this have a long tail end. How long was the NES or Atari 2600 on the market? A LONG time. Besides, the VC service isn't expensive for Nintendo maintain. It will be around for quite a while!

[quote]I think you hit the nail on the head -- old consoles last, while new ones -- not so much.  So why get rid of older consoles that last when you have a Wii?  It makes no sense.[/quote]

It is because the older systems were designed for interlaced television sets. VC games are in true low resolution. Hooking up my NES to a modern TV is gross. VC is also a considerable improvement over the original system experience since I don't have to deal with cartridges (or CLEANING them) or dead batteries. With VC, I also have wireless controllers.

Having all the old school systems hooked up to a TV looks like a mess with wires running everywhere and controllers knotting and snaking into one another. Just having a Wii with no wires is much nicer for my living room.

By the time the service ends, if it does, it will probably be twenty years from now (Wiis will probably be sold for at least 8-10 more years). And all I want is a system to endure for twenty years.

One thing people mistake about Nintendo is that they are forever profit hungry. There is a reason why the VC came online at launch day when the Forcast, News, and Internet channels did not. VC was profitable to Nintendo while the other channels were not.

What will not last are the Forcast, News, Everybody Votes, and such channels. VC will last FAR longer because it generates cashflow. Why in the world would Nintendo and companies stop supporting easy cashflow?

[QUOTE=ChrisD]The Virtual Console sounds awesome on the Wii. I love playing compilations of old games on the PS2 -- such as Activision Classics and the Genesis collection.

Does the VC have Genesis games too?
[/QUOTE]

VC has games from NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, and Turbographix 16. In Japan, it also has MSX computer and the Neo Geo. Epyx wants to put its Commodore 64 games (like Impossible Mission and Jumpman) on the VC. Electronic Arts has expressed an interest in jumping onto the VC so that opens up many more Genesis, NES games and God knows how many computer games. VC is like old-school nirvana.

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]A guy I know had one of the lens (crystal thingies?) broken in it and Nintendo did repair it. This was fairly recent as in a year or two ago.[/QUOTE]

Well I'll just say that this wasn't the experience I had.  I've sent emails about both the VB and the N64 in the very recent past, and in both cases, I was told that Nintendo didn't support these systems, and that no one was available for repair or to answer my questions.

Incidentally, I also read a site where a gamer had a similar experience with the SNES.

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]I never bought a PS2 though my friends did. I don't feel I missed out since I found the majority of games to be dull minus a few. I felt this way about the Xbox, Gamecube, N64, and original Playstation.[/QUOTE]

Just how many did you play, and which ones?  There are TONS of games on the PS2.  I doubt that anybody has been able to play even close to a fourth of them all.  And in my experience, when you choose carefully, there are anything but just a dull set.

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]One of the reasons for Wii's meteoric sales is because people like me getting interested in gaming again. The 3d revolution really soured gaming for me. I didn't like the controls and the games became longer and less intense (I prefer arcade type of games).[/QUOTE]

Yet the 3D generation has only grown the gaming industry overall.  Gaming has not declined in the West, only in areas like Japan.  In the States gaming is on the rise and has been for close to a decade.  In Europe, it's only recently been seen to decline, and that was after the Wii released (and it was only measured as declining in terms of home-based publishers and developers declining).

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]The reality is that if someone doesn't make a system to my desires, I do not buy the system![/QUOTE]

The reality is that none of us know if a system is going to last for 20 years until 20 years passes.

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]VC is not a console; it is not a portable. VC is a whole new platform. Nintendo has said VC will continue.[/QUOTE]

They've also said explicity that the games are only tied to your console, and that you cannot play them on any other console, even if you own more than one console.  You must buy them for each console you intend to play them on.

I don't know if I could ever move my VC games to the successor of the Wii. But I do know that the functionality of my VC games on my Wii isn't dependent on Nintendo's support. Nintendo could fall off the Earth and I will still happily play my Soldier Blade. Contrast this to something like Xbox Live Arcade where much of the games' functionality is dependent on Microsoft's support (and you paying your Xbox Live fee). I'm not sure how it works for the PS3.

I have a hunch that the Wii will also be selling on the market longer than the generational cycle. Hot systems like this have a long tail end. How long was the NES or Atari 2600 on the market? A LONG time. Besides, the VC service isn't expensive for Nintendo maintain. It will be around for quite a while!

[quote]I think you hit the nail on the head -- old consoles last, while new ones -- not so much.  So why get rid of older consoles that last when you have a Wii?  It makes no sense.[/quote]

It is because the older systems were designed for interlaced television sets. VC games are in true low resolution. Hooking up my NES to a modern TV is gross. VC is also a considerable improvement over the original system experience since I don't have to deal with cartridges (or CLEANING them) or dead batteries. With VC, I also have wireless controllers.

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]By the time the service ends, if it does, it will probably be twenty years from now (Wiis will probably be sold for at least 8-10 more years). And all I want is a system to endure for twenty years.[/QUOTE]

It isn't about the service ending.  I am saying that the service won't likely migrate to newer Nintendo consoles.  It won't even migrate to existing extra Wii consoles.

And I definitely do NOT believe the Wii will last for 20 years in terms of support.  If you need to buy a new Wii and Nintendo has dropped support (perhaps five to ten years from now), you will not be able to transfer games to your new Wii.  There is no indication from Nintendo that this is possible at all, quite the opposite in fact.  In order for that to happen, Nintendo has to do it in support, which will have ended at that point.

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]One thing people mistake about Nintendo is that they are forever profit hungry. There is a reason why the VC came online at launch day when the Forcast, News, and Internet channels did not. VC was profitable to Nintendo while the other channels were not.[/QUOTE]

I sure as heck hope they are profit hungry.  That's why they are in business.  It's what drives them to make premium games and to innovate.  I hope they are forever.  If they weren't "forever profit hungry", I wouldn't hold much esteem for them.

[QUOTE=Cataclysm]What will not last are the Forcast, News, Everybody Votes, and such channels. VC will last FAR longer because it generates cashflow. Why in the world would Nintendo and companies stop supporting easy cashflow?[/QUOTE]

That is exactly my point.  At least with the older systems you own a lasting copy that has a license attached to the media.  You don't have that with the Wii Virtual Console, in which the license is attached to the console itself.  That fits the intentions of online publishers just fine, including Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony -- sell them, and sell them again, and sell them again and again and again.

Like I said, I love the VC.  I've bought more than 40 games so far on the service.  But I try to look at this realistically.  I am enjoying it for now and perhaps the next few years, and that makes it worth it.  I definitely don't believe it is justification for getting rid of old games and consoles, given that at least those don't require media-attachment to the console itself.

[QUOTE=m0zart]Just how many did you play, and which ones?  There are TONS of games on the PS2.  I doubt that anybody has been able to play even close to a fourth of them all.  And in my experience, when you choose carefully, there are anything but just a dull set.[/quote]

I like arcade style games which the 8-bit and 16-bit generations mimicked. For the next two generations, games tried to become a "cinema experience" which I hated. I don't like the feel of those games. Arcades were pretty much dead by then and the game industry was trying to become like the Hollywood industry.

Even today, my game habits revolve around arcade type games (which Wii Sports and Excitetruck somewhat imitate). I LOVE the VC mostly because I LOVE 8-bit and 16-bit games. I can play these games for five minutes at a time and go on to do something else. I like that. I do not like the games of the last couple of generations as most of them kept trying to hog my time.

It is natural for people to become disinterested in gaming for a while and come back. I don't like most 3d games which is what dominates the gaming landscape now.

[QUOTE]Yet the 3D generation has only grown the gaming industry overall.  Gaming has not declined in the West, only in areas like Japan.  In the States gaming is on the rise and has been for close to a decade.  In Europe, it's only recently been seen to decline, and that was after the Wii released (and it was only measured as declining in terms of home-based publishers and developers declining).[/quote]

Not when you account population growth in America and a decline of PC gaming. The sheer mass of "growth" for gaming consoles has been in multiple console ownership.

Also, gaming trends tend to start in Japan and then appear in the Western markets. The Playstation succeeded first in Japan before dominating in the West. The DS caught fire in Japan before America and Europe caught up.

With consoles costing now $400-600, is it so far fetched to sense that console gaming in the west would have gone on a decline this generation? 360 and PS3 are not outselling the six year old PS2 which is very troubling.

[quote]The reality is that none of us know if a system is going to last for 20 years until 20 years passes.[/quote]

I do. =)

I don't even know if Sony or (especially) Microsoft will still be in the console gaming business twenty years from now.

[QUOTE]And I definitely do NOT believe the Wii will last for 20 years in terms of support.  If you need to buy a new Wii and Nintendo has dropped support (perhaps five to ten years from now), you will not be able to transfer games to your new Wii.  There is no indication from Nintendo that this is possible at all, quite the opposite in fact.  In order for that to happen, Nintendo has to do it in support, which will have ended at that point.[/quote]

Sure they will once they know I won't buy their current products.

Even if Wii becomes a failure (sales plunge to zero overnight), it will still be on the market for five more years. Since Nintendo has shown they support the console of previous generation as well, now we have ten years from now at minimum. And since the Wii is making a splash in the market similiar to how the NES did long ago, the Wii will most likely be on the market for longer than five years which pushes that ten years further up. Will it reach twenty years? It will be close!

But one thing is for sure, it will be far longer than a Microsoft console. Nothing against Microsoft, but I saw how they dumped support on the last Xbox. I also am seeing how they are suddenly stopping their warranties on the current 360. PS3 I am not as informed about.

[QUOTE]I sure as heck hope they are profit hungry.  That's why they are in business.  It's what drives them to make premium games and to innovate.  I hope they are forever.  If they weren't "forever profit hungry", I wouldn't hold much esteem for them.[/quote]

Well, Microsoft Game Division just loses billions of dollars. Even Sony is currently taking a nasty hit. So not everyone is in this for profits.

[QUOTE]That is exactly my point.  At least with the older systems you own a lasting copy that has a license attached to the media.  You don't have that with the Wii Virtual Console, in which the license is attached to the console itself.[/quote]

My VC games will last longer than some cartridges. No dead battery issue. No cleaning issues. No CDs or DVDs getting scratched or lost.

Stop looking at cartridges like they are some holy artifact that will never age. They already have aged and most of them are obesolete. Like I said earlier, most were designed for interlaced televisions. N64 cartridges have a lower frame rate to their VC siblings.

Even if you don't like the VC, you should welcome it. It will drop the price for cartridges on Ebay so you can buy all to your heart's content.

As for me, I've had enough of these inferior versions on the cartridges. I'm tired of cleaning them, of pulling them in and out, of dealing with dead batteries on some NES games, and how they are a gross interlaced.

The market has spoken, and they are buying VC games by the bucketloads. I know this doesn't make sense for you, but try to understand the the VC is more for people like me. I-Tunes sells digital music and movies by a significant number despite not having a "physical" media.

[quote]That fits the intentions of online publishers just fine, including Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony -- sell them, and sell them again, and sell them again and again and again.[/quote]

Oh noes! Nintendo might sell me their games twenty years from now to use on the new 3d holographic TVs! That devilous company! How dare they do this!

On a more serious note, the VC, like I-Tunes, is a solution to a consumer problem not a money grab. With I-Tunes, it untied the legal knots to sell digital music directly to consumers (which record studios objected). VC is untying the legal knots of legacy games and allowing one not to have multiple systems hooked up to a TV.

If you want a money grab, look at the GBA Classics where 8-bit games were costing $20-30 or lazy compilation discs where developers don't emulate the game for modern TVs. Seriously, NES games today should not have that black bar on the side anymore.

[quote]I definitely don't believe it is justification for getting rid of old games and consoles, given that at least those don't require media-attachment to the console itself.[/QUOTE]

Then don't. But I do.

To me, games are meant to be played rather than be displayed like trophies. The problem with some consoles like the NES is that they are TOO OLD. Like I said before, they were made for interlaced televisions. Remember that these old school consoles were made for televisions that are well past obesolete now (which makes these consoles obsolete as well). Just because some games in the early 1980s used small black and white monitors doesn't mean I must play the game the same way today. So why should I bother with games designed to display for interlaced tvs when everything today is now true resolution?