Critic: What are your thoughts on tool-assisted speedruns/speedrunning?

[qubit]

Personally, I love the concept.  I've tried some TASing myself and let me tell you, it's simply not a matter of pressing rerecord every time you mess up.  It's [expletive] HARD.  You need to juggle physics engine abuse, luck manipulation, character movement, AI stupidity/genius...it's very hard to make a good one.

Watching them, however, is a lot more fun.  I suggest you start off watching this amazing tool-assisted soeedrun of Sonic 3 and Knuckles by nitsuja (who's also destroyed Sonic 2 and Advance 1-3 in a similar fashion).  WARNING: Make sure you are not drinking any carbonated beverages before watching this movie.

What are your favourite runs, if you have any?  If you don't/like tool-assisted speedruns, why?  Let's get the critic in on this, too!

[Steerforth]

I don't know what "tool assisted" means exactly. Explain if you like.

[m0zart1]

[QUOTE=Steerforth]

I don't know what "tool assisted" means exactly. Explain if you like.

[/QUOTE]

One example would be using cheat codes.  Another would be using emulators with the framerate set to 1.

Here's a seemingly impressive speed run through Metroid that was OBVIOUSLY done by setting the framerate on the emulator to 1, and using save state persistently.

http://www.gamespot.com/nes/action/metroid/video_player.html?id=IiY1kmGs5bsOvzc

[feilong801]

On the face of it, I don't like it too much. It seems more impressive to me to execute a speed run within the contraints of the rules of the game.

I do understand how they could make entertaining videos, though. Sort of like those "combo vids" that the 1 on 1 fighter crowd like to make.

-Rob

[qubit]

[QUOTE=m0zart][QUOTE=Steerforth]

I don't know what "tool assisted" means exactly. Explain if you like.

[/QUOTE]

One example would be using cheat codes.  Another would be using emulators with the framerate set to 1.

Here's a seemingly impressive speed run through Metroid that was OBVIOUSLY done by setting the framerate on the emulator to 1, and using save state persistently.

http://www.gamespot.com/nes/action/metroid/video_player.html?id=IiY1kmGs5bsOvzc
[/QUOTE]

Cheat codes are NEVER allowed on tool-assisted speedrun sites, unless you want to add one for entertainment value (like all the Metroid TAS's unlock suitless Samus for fun).  No codes are allowed which can manipulate the code at all.  Slowing the game down to a crawl does not change how the game works, just how fast it works.  And actually, the best way to make a TAS is through frame advance, where you can control what input goes into each individual frame.

[Steerforth]

Thanks Mozart.

That does not sound like any fun to me.

[m0zart1]

[QUOTE=qubit]Cheat codes are NEVER allowed on tool-assisted speedrun sites, unless you want to add one for entertainment value (like all the Metroid TAS's unlock suitless Samus for fun).  No codes are allowed which can manipulate the code at all.  Slowing the game down to a crawl does not change how the game works, just how fast it works.  And actually, the best way to make a TAS is through frame advance, where you can control what input goes into each individual frame.[/QUOTE]

And yet, on this tool assisted speed run, there was INDEED the use of a code that started Samus off with more than she would have had to begin with.  And I really can't agree that slowing things down doesn't change the game.  Slowing things down IS a cheat... period.  It takes away the need for response time, dexterity, etc.  This speed run I posted demonstrates that in grand fashion.

[qubit]

Slowing down the game would only be considered cheating if one were to ship a TAS run off to SDA and pass it off as a human run.  In the TAS community, only one rule applies: you cannot change the actual code.  That means no cheat codes to change the original programming.  This is the current "any%" Metroid TAS which uses the suitless Samus code for fun.

And yes, places like TASvideos do have rules (a large set of them actually) and an FAQ which explains everything.

What you don't get is that these places are not trying to compete against SDA.  They're in a league of their own.

[m0zart1]

[QUOTE=qubit]What you don't get is that these places are not trying to compete against SDA.  They're in a league of their own.[/QUOTE]

Look, you asked why someone doesn't like the concept of tool-assisted speedruns, and I told you why I didn't -- in fact, why I consider them not to be worth my attention.  It really doesn't matter to me if they exist in a world of their own with their own rules -- this is my judgement on that kind of thing.  Not a single speedrun has impressed me after I realized it was tool-assisted, nor did I get much visual enjoyment out of them given that knowledge.  It simply doesn't showcase skill.

Now you are free not to agree with me, but I didn't just volunteer this information.  You asked for it.  Were you hoping everyone would just fall in love with the idea?

[Adamant1]

While they don't nessecarily require skill, they do require an intricate understanding of the game and exactly how it works in order to exploit things for a shorter run. That said, I never found them very interesting myself.
Skill will always be more entertaining and impressive than knowledge.