critic: psp, emulators, piracy, freedom

[a1]

You think the developers  who made the game(the actual people who made it not the company) are angry that he's playing it m0zart ? I'm sure anyone who makes a game would rather see people playing an emulated version 12 years later than not playing it because it is too expensive. No one is really harmed by him getting roms of old Neo Geo games. Not even the original company because the only place he could get it from is Ebay, and you could make an argument that selling things on Ebay is just scalping anyway.

[Sudz1]

When I pirate a game, Im not "stealing" anything because I didn't take anything away.  I got thousands of roms on my computer and I know damn well I couldn't afford to pay for all of them.  But when you "steal" someone from something, as in actually taking a possession away, you are depriving a person of property.  So I can't compare pirating to stealing.  Yeah I know everyone doesn't agree with me, but I'd rather have the entire Neo Geo collection emulated than have to worry about moral absolution when I'm not hurting anyone, because I can't afford it anyways.  I only got 80 or so years to live, so I might as well play what games I can.   I buy plenty of games anyways.

Hmmmm, I think I agree with you to a point Edward.  I don't believe one's ability to afford or not afford something makes it any more right to take something illicitely, but certainly in the case of older games the original publishing company typically is no longer making that product available (and in many cases is long since out of business)... so, you aren't depriving THEM of any profit by emulating one of their games.  I have no problem not forking over money to an Ebay'er for a game because they aren't the original publisher and therefore don't have license to that 'intellectual property' which is really what you're paying a game publisher for.Sudz

[Atarifever1]

I don't know about emmulation.  I tend to avoid it in most cases, but have to admit to having a bunch of emulation on my N-Gage.  But of course, I wouldn't be playing Vectorman on Genesis on the bus, and if I were home, I'd rather use my legal cart anyway.  Thus, if I downloaded a game I hadn't played onto my N-Gage, I'd consider it worth my while to buy a copy if I liked it  The same goes for console gaming.  I buy Virtual Console games for the Wii, even though I could get them free on the internet.  That's mainly because unless I want to put some real effort into tinkering with settings, games, especially Genesis games, look like crap on computer emmulators and don't have the same feel they do on the TV with a decent controller anyway.

I'd generally rather pay a little more for a real solid, bug free version of a game anyway.

Regarding the music thing that some people have brought up, I just don't download something I don't buy.  I feel like if I like a song enough to listen to it on purpose, I should like it enough to reward the people involved in makng it.  Even if you only like one song on a CD now, it is entirely possible to download one song on many sites for just a buck.  If you don't like a song enough to pay $1 for it, you don't like it enough to listen to it.  If you want to put that song on your MP3 player, a burned CD, a casette, your toaster, whatever, that's fine by me once you buy it.  If you give it to someone else then though, that's not cool, beas if they liked it, they wouldn't mind paying the same as you did.

[m0zart1]

You think the developers  who made the game(the actual people who made it not the company) are angry that he's playing it m0zart ? I'm sure anyone who makes a game would rather see people playing an emulated version 12 years later than not playing it because it is too expensive.

I don't care what the original developers think about it unless they still own the intellectual property.  When you work for a software company, as I do, you agree that you are selling your work in full (not just a license) to the company you work for, for a price.  That is selling the rights to the intellectual property in this case.  It belongs to the company, which invested the money to pay those developers.If the developers still own the property, then that's a different story.  My theoretical back yard is no different.  I am by no means the original explorer to laid out my back yard.  He eventually sold it to someone, and down the line somewhere I bought it from someone in that chain of sales.  I could care less if he's rolling in his grave if I put a pool in there.

No one is really harmed by him getting roms of old Neo Geo games. Not even the original company because the only place he could get it from is Ebay, and you could make an argument that selling things on Ebay is just scalping anyway.

They do get harmed in an economic sense, because it dilutes the potential value of their property when they do decide to go to market (if they in fact do decide to do that).  For instance, will NeoGeo sell as well when it comes to the VC when it's been downloaded on a regular basis?  But the real "damage" comes to their property rights to begin with.  They have a fundamental right to control the distribution of that property, and to control its use.  To say that anyone can have it for free if they can just find it is to say that they really don't get to control said property or its use, which is by definition a violation of that natural right.Ebay is not "scalping" unless the license sold to the original game owner doesn't allow resale of the game.  Even in the latter case where resale is forbidden, it's usually only retail sale that is forbidden for resale.  So eBay cerrtainly doesn't fit either the legal or ethical definition of "scalping".  Scalping things like theater tickets is basically wrong because the owners and stakeholders in the performance only sold a license, and that license specifically states on practically ever ticket that there can be no resales.  That said, it usually doesn't forbid moneyless transfers.  In the software world, scalping would be stealing the ROM image from the cart, and then giving it away online or selling it.  Other participants in that "scalping" would be those who willingly take the stolen property.

[Edward M]

And no,  I'm not gonna shoot up a store.  That was supposed to be meant as a rather large contrast.   I should have pointed out that shooting up a convienant store hurts people, but downloading Neo Geo games doesn't.  Perhaps not the best comparison though.

[Steerforth]

Edward, just curious, how many of these games do you actually play?

I messed around with ROMS about 5 years ago when I first heard about it, but I would only spend about 5 minutes with a game and get bored. Easy come, easy go. Part of it was playing on the computer, part of it was having a dozen new games to play with at once instead of one that I had just bought, and part of it was I knew it was wrong.

[Edward M]

I've played all my games I've downloaded at one point or another(except for some of the collections I've downloaded, haven't gotten around to every game in the collection).  Some games I will realise they are total garbage after playing for a couple of minutes and never play them again.  I don't delete them, because my harddrive is huge.

[Atarifever1]

One defense of emmulation that I hear a lot is "hasn't Nintendo/Sega/Sony/NEC etc. already made enough on these games.  It's also the reasoning I hear behind people saying $5-10 is too much for a VC game.  Before that idea comes into this I figured I'd nip it in the bud.

My parents bought my brother a copy of Super Mario Bros. with his NES something like 20 years ago.  That was the last time someone in my family bought that game.  If my brother's daughter wants to buy Super Mario Bros, which can be purchased on the Wii, out of her allowance money in a couple years is it fair to say she shouldn't have to pay for it just because her grandparents purchased the game well over 20 years before?  By that logic if I have a kid, they should be able to walk into a store and steal a copy of Monopoly (the board game).  Sorry Parker Brothers, but I think you've made your money off of this bloodline already.  And hey, why not hot wire a new Chevy Cobolt, I mean that company has been selling those for years. 

Just because these games are old doesn't mean anything, nor does their having made profits before.  Lots of companies make things year after year and still charge money for them.  Their being old or their having already turned a profit doesn't make the theft of games you didn't buy any less of a theft.  If there are potential new customers, the product might as well still be in a display case in a store for all the ethical right you have to it without paying.

[Quill]

Can't believe this discussion is up again but so be it!

Anyways I'm surprised no one has mentioned the few benefits to people pirating software. Not to the  people  pirating but to the actual companies that own the software.

It can exist as a form of viral marketing and actually make the company money. If alot of people stumble upon a game through emulation and really love it, it is possible that they might clamor for a re release of the game. I could go into greater detail with this but I think you see the jist of what I'm getting at.

People find game, People like game, People want game to be rereleased, Profit! Who knows if it weren't for emulation we may not have things like the Virtual Console today.

However, no matter what you decide ethically/morally about the situation you have to deal with the fact that it is illegal. I used to emulate games all the time. I don't any longer for several reasons. My biggest reason would be as a collector they are worthless.

 I may from time to time try out a game or too but it rarely will stay on my computer for more than an hour if that. If I like the game I go out and search for it if not I probably still go out and buy it, just to complete the collection.

[netslacker]

 
o.k.  guys, there are some good points in your replies regarding the piracy of older games,  but what of the hacking of the psp system itself and the use of the 'dumpers'?  is it  causing  such a security problem that game developers are beginning to shy away from the psp?  after all you can grab a brand new psp game at a rental store, dump it, copy it, and 'lend' it to a million people or so through a file sharing network.  are developers really concerned with this?

sony keeps trying to block the 'homebrew' comunity (read emulators and iso dumping) by releasing copulsory new firmwares at an astonishing pace (not just bug fixes or added features).  seems  somebody is either worried or sony wants to maintain it's stronghold over it's customers.


and that brings us to dark_alex and his magical custom firmwares............