This topic is now a referendum on Zelda, lol.
Mozart - I hope one day you see a video on an upcoming Zelda game that shows Link doing the triple jump.
But, you make some good points on people not being able to review games for what they are, but rather for what the reviewer expected/wanted. The problem with games like Zelda is they take forever to make, get delayed and pushed back, hyped to the hilt, and then have to live up with people's memories of ealier great games in the franchise. No wonder fans get deflated.
New Poll for Best Console
-
Edward M
New Poll for Best Console
About Zelda being boring and bland, the keyword is sometimes. It most certainly isn't always. It has awesome boss battles and some interesting dungeons. Perhaps the over world in comparison to Oblivion is bland . It has its problems, but overall its pretty good. Oblivion also has its problems like some redundant dungeons, but overall I far prefer its world.
And no, Oblivion isn't the first western RPG Ive played. Ive played many, including the entire Elder Scrolls Series, both Fall outs, KOTOR, Fable, and Baldur's gate, and even the 1st Ultima, and Ultima Underworld. I feel Oblivion is by far the best Western style RPG I've played.
I feel it is justafiable to compare Zelda to Oblivion. They are very simular. And Oblivion has many ideas I'd like to see in the Zelda series. For that matter, so does Ninja Gaiden. I believe that any time a game has something simular to another one, it is far to compare it. Even though Zelda is not a pure action games, its far to compare its sword swinging to Ninja gaiden, where it comes far short. Of course it has other good features in it that keeps it from being lackluster. But as long as a game doesn't do everything correctly, it is fair to criticise any individual part of a game, while the game itself can still be overall good. I'd like to see some exploration and different sidequests in Zelda like Oblivion does, but that doesn't discount that Zelda does things good.
And no, Oblivion isn't the first western RPG Ive played. Ive played many, including the entire Elder Scrolls Series, both Fall outs, KOTOR, Fable, and Baldur's gate, and even the 1st Ultima, and Ultima Underworld. I feel Oblivion is by far the best Western style RPG I've played.
I feel it is justafiable to compare Zelda to Oblivion. They are very simular. And Oblivion has many ideas I'd like to see in the Zelda series. For that matter, so does Ninja Gaiden. I believe that any time a game has something simular to another one, it is far to compare it. Even though Zelda is not a pure action games, its far to compare its sword swinging to Ninja gaiden, where it comes far short. Of course it has other good features in it that keeps it from being lackluster. But as long as a game doesn't do everything correctly, it is fair to criticise any individual part of a game, while the game itself can still be overall good. I'd like to see some exploration and different sidequests in Zelda like Oblivion does, but that doesn't discount that Zelda does things good.
-
Shawn
New Poll for Best Console
[QUOTE=Steerforth]I have seen 360 and PS3 in action only from kiosk in stores, but I have to say, at least on graphics level, I am not impressed. [/QUOTE]
The graphics aren't impressive? You haven't seen Gears of War or Motorstorm. There are at least ten other games that smoke any thing else on the Wii. Graphics aren't the most important thing but you are out of your mind if you are not "impressed" with the graphics on either system. Are you impressed witht the Wii's graphics? First the VGC thinks that Attack of the Clones is the greatest Star Wars movie of all time and now this; I think I have heard it all on this site now.
The graphics aren't impressive? You haven't seen Gears of War or Motorstorm. There are at least ten other games that smoke any thing else on the Wii. Graphics aren't the most important thing but you are out of your mind if you are not "impressed" with the graphics on either system. Are you impressed witht the Wii's graphics? First the VGC thinks that Attack of the Clones is the greatest Star Wars movie of all time and now this; I think I have heard it all on this site now.
-
m0zart1
- Posts: 3117
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
New Poll for Best Console
[QUOTE=Edward M]I feel it is justafiable to compare Zelda to Oblivion. They are very simular. And Oblivion has many ideas I'd like to see in the Zelda series. For that matter, so does Ninja Gaiden.[/QUOTE]
Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I'd rather it just keep playing like Zelda, rather than trying to emulate other game series. If I want to play those series, I'll play those series.[QUOTE=Edward M]I believe that any time a game has something simular to another one, it is far to compare it. Even though Zelda is not a pure action games, its far to compare its sword swinging to Ninja gaiden, where it comes far short.[/QUOTE]
I don't see gameplay elements as being more complex or harder as something to be achieved if the game plays just fine without them. I wouldn't want a combat system ANYTHING LIKE Ninja Gaiden, for instance, in a Zelda game.
[QUOTE=Edward M]Of course it has other good features in it that keeps it from being lackluster. But as long as a game doesn't do everything correctly, it is fair to criticise any individual part of a game, while the game itself can still be overall good. I'd like to see some exploration and different sidequests in Zelda like Oblivion does, but that doesn't discount that Zelda does things good.[/QUOTE]
Understand a couple of things here:
- I am not suggesting that you have to admit Zelda is a good game or does some things good, as that is irrelevant to my enjoyment of the game, which was solid.
- Just because someone can suggest "improvements" in gameplay by comparing them to other games doesn't mean those suggestions would work or be desirable, and it certainly doesn't mean that the game would be improved with their addition. I don't find Zelda gameplay bland at all at this point, and so I reject these ideas as improvements, particularly since I enjoyed the recent Zelda far more than either of the two games you mentioned. I think they would only hinder the game, rather than actually improve it. Is it fair to suggest them? Sure, but only in the sense that almost any suggestion made in good faith is fair.
- None of this means I won't accept Zelda games in the future with significant changes, since I have done just that over the years as Miyamoto's changes envision, but having said that, I have far more faith in his abilities to deliver something fun and different while retaining the essentials that make Zelda a Zelda game, and luckily, I won't have to worry about him compromising his vision by trying to make it a clone of other games, even if they are popular. Being staunchly interested in his own take on games is one of the things I admire about him. As he said recently, he is more than capable of making games like Halo, among others, and chooses not to -- and I am glad as his games are more enjoyable to me than those which are constantly touted as the holy grails that Zelda must attain. Zelda is the holy grail of gaming to me.
-
feilong801
- Posts: 2173
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
New Poll for Best Console
Wow, too bad I was late to getting to this thread.
I was actually planning on writing a "my take on the Wii and 360 after owning both for awhile" post, so I'll refrain from talking about it much here.
I think the overarching theme I'm seeing lately is people wanting certain games to "morph" into other games, when maybe they should just play those other games instead.
Oblivion does have a nice main campaign. Like I've said before, it is hurt by that classic sandbox problem of "OK, save the world, but by all means do whatever the heck you want for as long as you want before you do it." If I were designing a sandbox game, I would perhaps set it up where the main campaign would "lock" you in, perhaps after a "warning" dialogue box in case you wanted to go off and do the sandbox thing. But then again, perhaps I am now falling guilty of wanting Oblivion to be something else. Yet, I am perfectly happy giving both that game and Zelda high marks.
-Rob
I was actually planning on writing a "my take on the Wii and 360 after owning both for awhile" post, so I'll refrain from talking about it much here.
I think the overarching theme I'm seeing lately is people wanting certain games to "morph" into other games, when maybe they should just play those other games instead.
Oblivion does have a nice main campaign. Like I've said before, it is hurt by that classic sandbox problem of "OK, save the world, but by all means do whatever the heck you want for as long as you want before you do it." If I were designing a sandbox game, I would perhaps set it up where the main campaign would "lock" you in, perhaps after a "warning" dialogue box in case you wanted to go off and do the sandbox thing. But then again, perhaps I am now falling guilty of wanting Oblivion to be something else. Yet, I am perfectly happy giving both that game and Zelda high marks.
-Rob
-
Steerforth
New Poll for Best Console
O.K. Shawn, I will elaborate.
The Wii graphics are little improved (some games, is at all) from last gen, but the system and the games are in the same price league.
The PS3 and 360 are signifigantly more expensive from their little brothers and the games are $10 more across the board. From what I have seen, and it has been limited, my reaction is "big deal."
The jump isn't as dramtic as last gen, they still look how video game graphics generally look, (as in, I don't ask myself, "am I watching T.V. now !??! No wait, that kid is running the game! WoW!) so I say it is overated. Plus it is expensive, and every dollar from the budget pushing graphics is a dollar that is not spent in a more important area. I call creative laziness, the same games with a new coat of paint.
On the other hand, people complain that some Wii titles have PSP/PS2 quality graphics on some of their ports. This is no doubt true, but had the games been fun and compelling to begin with, they would not have cared as much. I call creative laziness, the same games with generic motion controll.
Motorstorm? Hah! I play Excite Truck, try that on your 6 axis!
Also, once in a while you see people brag on how the Wii won't be able to match the AI and physics of a few next gen games, even if it is pushing out less polygons. Bah! These games will be few and far between, make me a list. I'll admit it if proved wrong, but they will focus primarily on graphics and cinema because it is the path of least resistence to seperate the game of today vs the game of yesterday. Myself, I look for fun, but no one seems to market to me?
The Wii graphics are little improved (some games, is at all) from last gen, but the system and the games are in the same price league.
The PS3 and 360 are signifigantly more expensive from their little brothers and the games are $10 more across the board. From what I have seen, and it has been limited, my reaction is "big deal."
The jump isn't as dramtic as last gen, they still look how video game graphics generally look, (as in, I don't ask myself, "am I watching T.V. now !??! No wait, that kid is running the game! WoW!) so I say it is overated. Plus it is expensive, and every dollar from the budget pushing graphics is a dollar that is not spent in a more important area. I call creative laziness, the same games with a new coat of paint.
On the other hand, people complain that some Wii titles have PSP/PS2 quality graphics on some of their ports. This is no doubt true, but had the games been fun and compelling to begin with, they would not have cared as much. I call creative laziness, the same games with generic motion controll.
Motorstorm? Hah! I play Excite Truck, try that on your 6 axis!
Also, once in a while you see people brag on how the Wii won't be able to match the AI and physics of a few next gen games, even if it is pushing out less polygons. Bah! These games will be few and far between, make me a list. I'll admit it if proved wrong, but they will focus primarily on graphics and cinema because it is the path of least resistence to seperate the game of today vs the game of yesterday. Myself, I look for fun, but no one seems to market to me?
-
Edward M
New Poll for Best Console
I'm not saying Zelda needs to become Oblivion. But this is my problem with Zelda. With each game the overworld keeps getting bigger. This newest one seems almost half as big as the Oblivion one. But its just flat out boring and bland. I much prefered the smaller more compact overworld of LTTP. Infact I feel overall the Zelda series has gotten worse since becoming 3d. I'm not saying I want Zelda to be a huge opened ended Oblivion like game, but if you are gonna make an overworld as big as the one in twilight princess, put some stuff in it, don't make it a bunch of boring open fields, there's plenty of opportunities for sidequests. If you can't make a epic game, then don't make the overworld so huge.
-
m0zart1
- Posts: 3117
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
New Poll for Best Console
[QUOTE=Edward M]I'm not saying Zelda needs to become Oblivion. But this is my problem with Zelda. With each game the overworld keeps getting bigger. This newest one seems almost half as big as the Oblivion one. But its just flat out boring and bland. I much prefered the smaller more compact overworld of LTTP. Infact I feel overall the Zelda series has gotten worse since becoming 3d. I'm not saying I want Zelda to be a huge opened ended Oblivion like game, but if you are gonna make an overworld as big as the one in twilight princess, put some stuff in it, don't make it a bunch of boring open fields, there's plenty of opportunities for sidequests. If you can't make a epic game, then don't make the overworld so huge.
[/QUOTE]
-
feilong801
- Posts: 2173
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
New Poll for Best Console
The purpose of the Zelda overworld is simply to give a majestic backdrop to the gameworld, while providing a spot to get some easy rupees and hearts by defeating enemies.
The purpose of the Obilvion overworld, well... I wouldn't even call it an overworld in the sense that I think of that term.
The game design of Zelda tends to use fields and other generic topographic features to "funnel" you to the Very Important areas of the game. In the main field, you can clearly see the capital city and Hyrule castle. You aren't really supposed to spend much time in it, which is why you have a horse and the ability to warp throughout the gameworld.
Oblivion attempts to make a gameworld into a place where every square inch is of equal importance. It does this through enemy spawning and strategically located many, many dungeons and camps throughout the countryside, not too mention the towns and cities. It largely succeeds, and the sense of discovery by just randomly raiding some ancient tomb somewhere is really cool. But it is not the same experience as Zelda. In Zelda, every little minute detail is created to propel you in one direction. it gives the world narrative and epic depth.
-Rob
The purpose of the Obilvion overworld, well... I wouldn't even call it an overworld in the sense that I think of that term.
The game design of Zelda tends to use fields and other generic topographic features to "funnel" you to the Very Important areas of the game. In the main field, you can clearly see the capital city and Hyrule castle. You aren't really supposed to spend much time in it, which is why you have a horse and the ability to warp throughout the gameworld.
Oblivion attempts to make a gameworld into a place where every square inch is of equal importance. It does this through enemy spawning and strategically located many, many dungeons and camps throughout the countryside, not too mention the towns and cities. It largely succeeds, and the sense of discovery by just randomly raiding some ancient tomb somewhere is really cool. But it is not the same experience as Zelda. In Zelda, every little minute detail is created to propel you in one direction. it gives the world narrative and epic depth.
-Rob
-
JustLikeHeaven1
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
New Poll for Best Console
[QUOTE=Paul Campbell]
I am always making the same argument about Zelda being not even close to an RPG, and I still have not gotten a response from anybody about why it SHOULD have the letters "RPG" associated at all with it. An RPG is Ultima. Older Final Fanctasy games. People who try to associate Zelda with RPGs are not very familiar with true RPGs. I have to assume that they don't even know what RPG stands for, because, if they did, it would be obvious that Zelda is NOT.
[/QUOTE]
http://kotaku.com/gaming/notag/has-zelda-jumped-the-shark-258258.php
Here is the direct quote for those that don't feel like hitting the link.
"Why do you think Zelda isn't doing well in Japan?
Well, I think a lot of people who bought the Wii are not necessarily the types of people who are interested in playing that kind of game. And a lot of the people who would want to play it [due to chronic shortages of the console] can't find a Wii! But mostly, I think it's that there are fewer and fewer people who are interested in playing a big role-playing game like Zelda."
Return to “Video Games General”