Kingdom Hearts was among the best games of the PS2; right up there with God of War and Guitar Hero. You should give it another chance.
[/QUOTE]Kingdom Hearts 2: Final Mix is actually coming out this Fall, so we might get ourselves a little nice gift from Square since they pumped that out in Japan already.Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
-
The RPG Critic
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
Square has been disappointing a lot lately, I'll agree.
As mentioned before, KH2 and VP2 are about the only recent things we've seen from Square that have been good lately. Enix, however, can do no wrong in the RPG world (five words: Dragon Quest 9 on DS).
Square's last entries into the Final Fantasy franchise have been lacking to say the least. Personally, I haven't been sad that I completed an FF game since FF6 on SNES.
Somebody tell Square that nobody in the U.S. cares about games on the mobile platform. And are 3 different FFXIII games necessary? What happened to the good old days when we had to wait years for another polished game instead of waiting only months for crap?
[[expletive deleted]] Fanal Fantasy. It's dying.
As mentioned before, KH2 and VP2 are about the only recent things we've seen from Square that have been good lately. Enix, however, can do no wrong in the RPG world (five words: Dragon Quest 9 on DS).
Square's last entries into the Final Fantasy franchise have been lacking to say the least. Personally, I haven't been sad that I completed an FF game since FF6 on SNES.
Somebody tell Square that nobody in the U.S. cares about games on the mobile platform. And are 3 different FFXIII games necessary? What happened to the good old days when we had to wait years for another polished game instead of waiting only months for crap?
[[expletive deleted]] Fanal Fantasy. It's dying.
-
JustLikeHeaven1
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
I really haven't had a problem with Square/Enix lately. I enjoyed FFX and I'm even digging XII. Plus KHII was a huge hit and Valkeryie Profile 2 was also a good game.
I don't think they are at the level from when they were pumping epic SNES carts like it was easy. Yet they still bring a quality product to the table.
I don't think they are at the level from when they were pumping epic SNES carts like it was easy. Yet they still bring a quality product to the table.
-
Quill
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
Question... why is everyone separating Square and Enix now? Are they not one in the same at this point? Are they still two separate identities under the same brand, Square Enix?
I'd say that one of their triumphs and failures are shared between both of them because they are the same. Are there two separate development houses that work on the different franchises depending on who worked on them first?
I'll admit that the Final Fantasy titles have kinda fallen off in recent years. I frankly don't care anymore... I tried playing 12 but damn... it just takes forever to get going. I very much doubt I'll be able to stomach another installment of that series.
Personally I'm a little upset they are remaking 4. I just repurchased and replayed that game a year ago on the GBA and now they upgrading it again? This of course was after purchasing it twice before, once on SNES and once on the PSone.
I'd say that one of their triumphs and failures are shared between both of them because they are the same. Are there two separate development houses that work on the different franchises depending on who worked on them first?
I'll admit that the Final Fantasy titles have kinda fallen off in recent years. I frankly don't care anymore... I tried playing 12 but damn... it just takes forever to get going. I very much doubt I'll be able to stomach another installment of that series.
Personally I'm a little upset they are remaking 4. I just repurchased and replayed that game a year ago on the GBA and now they upgrading it again? This of course was after purchasing it twice before, once on SNES and once on the PSone.
-
Michael D
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
[QUOTE=a]
For those who don't know what I'm talking about, let me explain this once and for all. When you first start to play KH2, you don't take control of Sora, nor do you see any Disney characters. That's because Sora, Goofy and Donald are still encased in ice (or something) from the events of the GBA game, Chain of Memoires (unplayed by me). Instead, you play as this uninteresting kid named Roxas.
That wouldn't be so bad if you actually got to have any fun. You don't. For the first 5 hours, you spend most of your time being given a tutorial of how to play the game (though the game can't even do that properly) and running around doing mindless tasks that have absolutely no connection to anything that makes Kingdom Hearts a fun game.
For example, to deliver items to people using a skateboard to raise enough money to take a train trip (but of course, after you waste all that time, your cash is stolen). You rarely get to participate in any battles (and only one can truly be considered a battle) and even then, the game does a bad job of illustrating how the battles have been improved over the last game; namely, by the improved camera angles/control and more in-depth combat (the two main problems with the first game).
To make this even worse, the game's story is so disgustingly self-indulgent during this period that (and I timed it) during those 5 hours, you spend only 50 minutes actually playing the game. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, for the first 5 hours, you'll be spending 5/6 of that time watching dreadfully boring cutscenes about characters we don't care about that only serve to fill in the story gaps in between this game and Chain of Memories. Yes, you can skip these cutscenes, but considering how in-depth the plot is (and that I didn't play the GBA game), I couldn't really skip them for fears that I'd miss something important that would be important down the road.
Basically, you're only playing the game for the first 5 hours so the game can tell its story, and the game part is such a complete afterthought that it's appalling. I'm told in cutscene to go somewhere, I walk down the hallway to get there, I get another cutscene, then I walk down another hallway and get another cutscene.
People chided Metal Gear Solid 2 for having too many cutscenes interspersed into the gameplay, but at least that game had the common courtesy to let its players play a fun game for a while, and even when it ended, the satisfaction of the gameplay was enough to make up for having so many cutscenes (which, unlike KH2, were at least somewhat interesting).
Even the first Kingdom Hearts had a slightly lengthy opening (about 2 hours before Sora met Goofy and Donald), but it was far better done in every respect than this game. I'm starting to think that with KH2, Tetsuya Nomura and his team became so enraptured by their storyline that they forget that it was being put into a video game. You know, something that, for most of the time, you're supposed to be playing. If they really wanted this story to be explained so badly, they should have just put it onto a DVD, edited it to a reasonable length, and include it in the box with the game. Don't make players suffer through all this and then put weak bits of gameplay in there to remind us that, yes, we are still playing a game.
Finally, (and I'm going to spoil this, so don't read on if you don't want it done) Roxas finds out that he's pretty much a tool of Sora and that he has no reason to live, to which I say, "Thank God!" Then Sora, Goofy, and Donald reawaken, and after 5 hours of suffering, the game finally starts, and guess what? It's awesome (even though there are still a few too many cutscenes, though they're far more interesting).
That's what makes me so mad about this. Players have to sit through 5 hours of perhaps the worst prologue in gaming history, only then to be rewarded with an amazing game that fixes all the problems of its predecessor. But, the developers had to introduce a problem that the first game never suffered from and it's the kind of thing that's so bad, I'm surprised that after 3 hours, people didn't just turn the game off in disgust and start to regret their purchase (and then, if you're like me, contemplate paying someone money to suffer through the prologue for you so you can actually enjoy the game).
To put this into the proper perspective, it's like if Shigeru Miyamoto were to tell his players that they have to play 5 hours worth of Superman 64 before they could play Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Wouldn't that be nice.
Kingdom Hearts was among the best games of the PS2; right up there with God of War and Guitar Hero. You should give it another chance.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about the first Kingdom Hearts, which I liked a lot. And don't misunderstand me; I still like Kingdom Hearts 2, but that enjoyment took a heinous blow during the first 5 hours.For those who don't know what I'm talking about, let me explain this once and for all. When you first start to play KH2, you don't take control of Sora, nor do you see any Disney characters. That's because Sora, Goofy and Donald are still encased in ice (or something) from the events of the GBA game, Chain of Memoires (unplayed by me). Instead, you play as this uninteresting kid named Roxas.
That wouldn't be so bad if you actually got to have any fun. You don't. For the first 5 hours, you spend most of your time being given a tutorial of how to play the game (though the game can't even do that properly) and running around doing mindless tasks that have absolutely no connection to anything that makes Kingdom Hearts a fun game.
For example, to deliver items to people using a skateboard to raise enough money to take a train trip (but of course, after you waste all that time, your cash is stolen). You rarely get to participate in any battles (and only one can truly be considered a battle) and even then, the game does a bad job of illustrating how the battles have been improved over the last game; namely, by the improved camera angles/control and more in-depth combat (the two main problems with the first game).
To make this even worse, the game's story is so disgustingly self-indulgent during this period that (and I timed it) during those 5 hours, you spend only 50 minutes actually playing the game. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, for the first 5 hours, you'll be spending 5/6 of that time watching dreadfully boring cutscenes about characters we don't care about that only serve to fill in the story gaps in between this game and Chain of Memories. Yes, you can skip these cutscenes, but considering how in-depth the plot is (and that I didn't play the GBA game), I couldn't really skip them for fears that I'd miss something important that would be important down the road.
Basically, you're only playing the game for the first 5 hours so the game can tell its story, and the game part is such a complete afterthought that it's appalling. I'm told in cutscene to go somewhere, I walk down the hallway to get there, I get another cutscene, then I walk down another hallway and get another cutscene.
People chided Metal Gear Solid 2 for having too many cutscenes interspersed into the gameplay, but at least that game had the common courtesy to let its players play a fun game for a while, and even when it ended, the satisfaction of the gameplay was enough to make up for having so many cutscenes (which, unlike KH2, were at least somewhat interesting).
Even the first Kingdom Hearts had a slightly lengthy opening (about 2 hours before Sora met Goofy and Donald), but it was far better done in every respect than this game. I'm starting to think that with KH2, Tetsuya Nomura and his team became so enraptured by their storyline that they forget that it was being put into a video game. You know, something that, for most of the time, you're supposed to be playing. If they really wanted this story to be explained so badly, they should have just put it onto a DVD, edited it to a reasonable length, and include it in the box with the game. Don't make players suffer through all this and then put weak bits of gameplay in there to remind us that, yes, we are still playing a game.
Finally, (and I'm going to spoil this, so don't read on if you don't want it done) Roxas finds out that he's pretty much a tool of Sora and that he has no reason to live, to which I say, "Thank God!" Then Sora, Goofy, and Donald reawaken, and after 5 hours of suffering, the game finally starts, and guess what? It's awesome (even though there are still a few too many cutscenes, though they're far more interesting).
That's what makes me so mad about this. Players have to sit through 5 hours of perhaps the worst prologue in gaming history, only then to be rewarded with an amazing game that fixes all the problems of its predecessor. But, the developers had to introduce a problem that the first game never suffered from and it's the kind of thing that's so bad, I'm surprised that after 3 hours, people didn't just turn the game off in disgust and start to regret their purchase (and then, if you're like me, contemplate paying someone money to suffer through the prologue for you so you can actually enjoy the game).
To put this into the proper perspective, it's like if Shigeru Miyamoto were to tell his players that they have to play 5 hours worth of Superman 64 before they could play Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Wouldn't that be nice.
-
Koopa W.
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
I like Square. Kingdom Hearts 1 (I STILL need to get my hands on a copy of KHII.) is one of the best PS2 games, and I still hold Final Fantasy VII (yes, I'm one of the stereotypical nerds who began RPGs on FFVII). as one of the best video games of all time. I've played through the whole game 8 times! Never does get old.
-
Steerforth
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
Michael D -
Self indulgent is a great phrase to describe most cut scenes. Its amazing how much filler is in a lot of story driven or role playing games (even Zelda, Tears of Whatever), pain in the butt stuff that is not really fun or rewarding but appears to flesh out the game by increasing the play time.
Self indulgent is a great phrase to describe most cut scenes. Its amazing how much filler is in a lot of story driven or role playing games (even Zelda, Tears of Whatever), pain in the butt stuff that is not really fun or rewarding but appears to flesh out the game by increasing the play time.
-
a1
- Posts: 3032
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
Actually, I was fairly disappointed with Kingdom Hearts 2 myself. The first game had a fairly lengthy set-up, but it wasn't awful, and only lasted for 1-2 hours. I hated the first 5 hours of Kingdom Hearts 2, and I didn't think the rest of the game was as good as the original either. It was far too linear (the first game had large worlds to explore, why did they take them away and force me to follow paths at all times?), and I actually enjoyed the simple combat of the first game more. It was still an enjoyable game, but it really wasn't as great as the first. I understand your disappointment with Square.
-
Michael D
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
[QUOTE=Steerforth]Michael D -
Self indulgent is a great phrase to describe most cut scenes. Its amazing how much filler is in a lot of story driven or role playing games (even Zelda, Tears of Whatever), pain in the butt stuff that is not really fun or rewarding but appears to flesh out the game by increasing the play time.
[/QUOTE]
But yes, lots of cutscenes in a game aren't necessarily a death blow, but if you are going to go that route, make sure they're interesting and don't overshadow the gameplay (Okami is a good recent example of this). Personally, I think that some of the best recent storylines in games have been told by their seemless integration into the gameplay, things like Half-Life 2, the Halos, and God of War 2. The Kingdom Hearts 2 staff could learn a thing or two from these titles.
-
JasonhasRSI1
- Posts: 712
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Is Final Fantasy/Square sinking?
To be fair, tri-ace developed Valkyrie Profile 2 so you can't really give SE much credit for that one.
Return to “Video Games General”