One thing that's been driving me nuts: Virtual Console Crybaby-ism.
Namely, whenever the official announcement from Nintendo hits the various blogs/webs, the comments also consist of these sorts of posts:
"What? No <insert super big hit game here> ? Give us the goods Nintendo!!!"
or, my favorite:
"I'm tired of waiting and paying for these games."
Uh..... Nintendo doesn't force anyone to buy VC games. Wow.
Another:
"The games are too expensive!"
Yeah, they probably are: because you're probably stealing the roms for free.
Anyway, I think Nintendo is going a good job in supplying three games (at least) on most weeks. Many of the games that are being dissed for not being "top tier" are in fact hidden/lesser known gems like Comix Zone.
Had to get that off my chest. (-:
-Rob
Virtual Console Crybabies
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Michael D
Virtual Console Crybabies
Well, regarding the "too expensive" claim, some virtual console games aren't that great of a deal considering that there are better and cheaper options to get some of those classic games.
For example, Sonic the Hedgehog, Ristar, and Sonic 2 (along with all the other Genesis games) are $8 a pop. For most people, I'd recommend that they just go out and buy Sonic Mega Collection for the Gamecube for under $20. That way, they'd get a whole bunch of Genesis games for the same price of 2 1/2 games of the VC, and being a GC game, it'll work with the Wii (although, in the case of Ristar, I'd still recommend downloading that, because it's a pain to unlock in SMC).
And another example would be some of those NES games that Nintendo has on there, like Wario's Woods, Tennis, Baseball, Soccer, and the like. For the price of four of them, you could just buy Animal Crossing for GC and get all those games and a couple more, too.
In the case of the games that aren't available elsewhere, I get the VC idea, but when you have better options that can save you a little bit of money, why not use some of them?
For example, Sonic the Hedgehog, Ristar, and Sonic 2 (along with all the other Genesis games) are $8 a pop. For most people, I'd recommend that they just go out and buy Sonic Mega Collection for the Gamecube for under $20. That way, they'd get a whole bunch of Genesis games for the same price of 2 1/2 games of the VC, and being a GC game, it'll work with the Wii (although, in the case of Ristar, I'd still recommend downloading that, because it's a pain to unlock in SMC).
And another example would be some of those NES games that Nintendo has on there, like Wario's Woods, Tennis, Baseball, Soccer, and the like. For the price of four of them, you could just buy Animal Crossing for GC and get all those games and a couple more, too.
In the case of the games that aren't available elsewhere, I get the VC idea, but when you have better options that can save you a little bit of money, why not use some of them?
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playgen
Virtual Console Crybabies
The criticsm of games being expensive is justified really. Since it costs Nintendo virtually nothing to do. The games are the exactly the same as roms people "steal illegally", these aren't reprogrammed games, virtual console is just the same as emulators on your PC. I really wouldnt be suprised if nintendo and co just download those same "illegal" roms everyone else does to put on the service.
I always say to anyone who takes a hard line on roms being illegal that without the emulation scene there wouldn't be a virtual console on wii, and there are lots of games that would have ended up being lost forever - prototypes/unreleased games etc. Infact without emulation the retro gaming scene would be a whole lot smaller. For example any magazine that features retro games uses emulation for the screenshots.
Emulation and roms of old games isnt so much illegal, but keeping these classic systems alive. Just because the owners of these games have now realised theres money to be made, after years and years of not caring about their heritage, doesn't mean you should automatically take their side.
So called illegal emulation has been good for the games industry.
I always say to anyone who takes a hard line on roms being illegal that without the emulation scene there wouldn't be a virtual console on wii, and there are lots of games that would have ended up being lost forever - prototypes/unreleased games etc. Infact without emulation the retro gaming scene would be a whole lot smaller. For example any magazine that features retro games uses emulation for the screenshots.
Emulation and roms of old games isnt so much illegal, but keeping these classic systems alive. Just because the owners of these games have now realised theres money to be made, after years and years of not caring about their heritage, doesn't mean you should automatically take their side.
So called illegal emulation has been good for the games industry.
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ActRaiser1
- Posts: 2726
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Virtual Console Crybabies
Yeah, there's not much point in buying a sega game on the VC when you can 20 games for under $10 on their compilation disk. But the same cannot be said for the Turbografix 16 and other Nintendo games (for the most part).
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Anayo1
- Posts: 758
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Virtual Console Crybabies
[QUOTE=Michael D]Well, regarding the "too expensive" claim, some virtual console games aren't that great of a deal considering that there are better and cheaper options to get some of those classic games.
For example, Sonic the Hedgehog, Ristar, and Sonic 2 (along with all the other Genesis games) are $8 a pop. For most people, I'd recommend that they just go out and buy Sonic Mega Collection for the Gamecube for under $20. That way, they'd get a whole bunch of Genesis games for the same price of 2 1/2 games of the VC, and being a GC game, it'll work with the Wii (although, in the case of Ristar, I'd still recommend downloading that, because it's a pain to unlock in SMC).
And another example would be some of those NES games that Nintendo has on there, like Wario's Woods, Tennis, Baseball, Soccer, and the like. For the price of four of them, you could just buy Animal Crossing for GC and get all those games and a couple more, too.
In the case of the games that aren't available elsewhere, I get the VC idea, but when you have better options that can save you a little bit of money, why not use some of them?
[/QUOTE]
You're right! It's the consumer's job to be wise with their money. The VC can be a very good deal (e.g., Toejam and Earl Funkotron or Gunstar Heroes for $8, since both of those easily go for $15 on eBay), or it can be not so great (like what you said about Sonic for $8.) People should buy what's a good deal, knowledgably avoid what's not, and wait for the rest.
For example, Sonic the Hedgehog, Ristar, and Sonic 2 (along with all the other Genesis games) are $8 a pop. For most people, I'd recommend that they just go out and buy Sonic Mega Collection for the Gamecube for under $20. That way, they'd get a whole bunch of Genesis games for the same price of 2 1/2 games of the VC, and being a GC game, it'll work with the Wii (although, in the case of Ristar, I'd still recommend downloading that, because it's a pain to unlock in SMC).
And another example would be some of those NES games that Nintendo has on there, like Wario's Woods, Tennis, Baseball, Soccer, and the like. For the price of four of them, you could just buy Animal Crossing for GC and get all those games and a couple more, too.
In the case of the games that aren't available elsewhere, I get the VC idea, but when you have better options that can save you a little bit of money, why not use some of them?
[/QUOTE]
You're right! It's the consumer's job to be wise with their money. The VC can be a very good deal (e.g., Toejam and Earl Funkotron or Gunstar Heroes for $8, since both of those easily go for $15 on eBay), or it can be not so great (like what you said about Sonic for $8.) People should buy what's a good deal, knowledgably avoid what's not, and wait for the rest.
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JustLikeHeaven1
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Virtual Console Crybabies
You can't really fault Nintendo for the uniformed pricing. Sure $5 for "Tennis" is a ripoff, but The Legend of Zelda a Link to the Past for 8 is a steal. Toe Jam and Earl is about $15-$20 for a loose cart and Beyond Oasis is also expensive. So $6 for those genesis games is a pretty good value. Image if they release super rare stuff like ChronoTrigger, Crusader of Centy or Earthbound. The value would be incredible.
Alot of companies don't want to release these rare titles because they are afraid of pissing off hardcore fans as well as collectors. I read in an interview that Treasure is very careful with what games they bring to these downloadable services for those exact reasons. So don't expect to see their most rare games show up on these services anytime soon.
I think the Virtual Console blows the pants off the games offered on Xbox Live and Playstation Network. They already offered tons more games and the quality to crap ratio is much better. The only positive of the Live and PSN games are the online play options of some classic games (MK II and Gauntlet come to mind.) Also some games sport enhanced graphics. I'm not saying the VC is better than Live or PSN...it just has better games to download.
The virtual console has let me try out several games I have never played before and I'm very grateful of that. The pricing on a few of the games doesn't make sense, but overall its a top notch service. There hasn't been a week that goes by where Nintendo doesn't add something to the VC. Plus with the potential of brand new games, it looks to be the winner in terms of downloadable games (in my eyes).
Plus the biggest plus in my eyes is that young gamers of today will get to experience the titles that I grew up with...the classics. I always feel bad for kids that grew up without a 2600, SMS, NES etc...having the PS1, N64 or PS2 be your first gaming system makes you miss out on the heritage of the industry. It wasn't always about graphics and epic plots...there was a time when games were so much more than that.
I sort of laugh when I browse the Playstation Network and I see "classic PS1" games like, JetMoto and Crash Bandicoot...you can't compare these offerings to what is on the VC.
Alot of companies don't want to release these rare titles because they are afraid of pissing off hardcore fans as well as collectors. I read in an interview that Treasure is very careful with what games they bring to these downloadable services for those exact reasons. So don't expect to see their most rare games show up on these services anytime soon.
I think the Virtual Console blows the pants off the games offered on Xbox Live and Playstation Network. They already offered tons more games and the quality to crap ratio is much better. The only positive of the Live and PSN games are the online play options of some classic games (MK II and Gauntlet come to mind.) Also some games sport enhanced graphics. I'm not saying the VC is better than Live or PSN...it just has better games to download.
The virtual console has let me try out several games I have never played before and I'm very grateful of that. The pricing on a few of the games doesn't make sense, but overall its a top notch service. There hasn't been a week that goes by where Nintendo doesn't add something to the VC. Plus with the potential of brand new games, it looks to be the winner in terms of downloadable games (in my eyes).
Plus the biggest plus in my eyes is that young gamers of today will get to experience the titles that I grew up with...the classics. I always feel bad for kids that grew up without a 2600, SMS, NES etc...having the PS1, N64 or PS2 be your first gaming system makes you miss out on the heritage of the industry. It wasn't always about graphics and epic plots...there was a time when games were so much more than that.
I sort of laugh when I browse the Playstation Network and I see "classic PS1" games like, JetMoto and Crash Bandicoot...you can't compare these offerings to what is on the VC.
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Atarifever1
- Posts: 3892
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Virtual Console Crybabies
I've said it before, if you are even considering the possibility that these games might exist somewhere else for you at a cheaper price, then you are not the real target market. The people who will buy these things want them because they are simple to get, they are right there on a thing already hooked to the TV, and they are a current purchase (contrary to popular belief, John and Jane consumer LOVE to spend minor amounts of money as an activity in and of itself). If this "cheaper elsewhere" arguement were a big deal then there wouldn't be 1000 outfits in every woman's closet and they would all buy a sensible amount of clothes from the Salvation Army.
This is videogame fast food. Is it cheaper than what you could do with some work? No. Is it the best value available? No. Is it lovingly crafted for you with extreme care individually each time? No. Does that stop McDonalds from selling you paste and calling it chicken? Does it stop people from buying? El Grande Nopea (El nopea grande?)
This is videogame fast food. Is it cheaper than what you could do with some work? No. Is it the best value available? No. Is it lovingly crafted for you with extreme care individually each time? No. Does that stop McDonalds from selling you paste and calling it chicken? Does it stop people from buying? El Grande Nopea (El nopea grande?)
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Steerforth
Virtual Console Crybabies
All in all, the VC ain't a bad deal, especially if you spend your money wisely like others have posted, but you do have to invest in another controller(!) to really make use of SNES games. Sorry, Rob, I had to whine a little bit!
But it's nice Nintendo can continue to get paid for its work, instead of people casually stealing from them. It's a sign of their workmanship that anyone would still be interested in these hopelessly outdated games anyhow. I mean, unless you are 1080i, you are decidly unhardcore these days. Everyone knows that graphics are the final fronteir for games today.
BTW, Zelda 2 (NES) is really, really excellent. When I played it as a kid, it was too much for me, but I recommend it to anyone who wants a very well imagined Zelda game with a fairly tough learning curve. Great animation and dungeons, a giant dangerous world to explore. A complete bargain at $5, let me tell you. Just to poke and prod a little, I will even go so far as to say it beats the crap out of Twilight Princess!
But it's nice Nintendo can continue to get paid for its work, instead of people casually stealing from them. It's a sign of their workmanship that anyone would still be interested in these hopelessly outdated games anyhow. I mean, unless you are 1080i, you are decidly unhardcore these days. Everyone knows that graphics are the final fronteir for games today.
BTW, Zelda 2 (NES) is really, really excellent. When I played it as a kid, it was too much for me, but I recommend it to anyone who wants a very well imagined Zelda game with a fairly tough learning curve. Great animation and dungeons, a giant dangerous world to explore. A complete bargain at $5, let me tell you. Just to poke and prod a little, I will even go so far as to say it beats the crap out of Twilight Princess!
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feilong801
- Posts: 2173
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Virtual Console Crybabies
[QUOTE=Steerforth]All in all, the VC ain't a bad deal, especially if you spend your money wisely like others have posted, but you do have to invest in another controller(!) to really make use of SNES games. Sorry, Rob, I had to whine a little bit!
But it's nice Nintendo can continue to get paid for its work, instead of people casually stealing from them. It's a sign of their workmanship that anyone would still be interested in these hopelessly outdated games anyhow. I mean, unless you are 1080i, you are decidly unhardcore these days. Everyone knows that graphics are the final fronteir for games today.
BTW, Zelda 2 (NES) is really, really excellent. When I played it as a kid, it was too much for me, but I recommend it to anyone who wants a very well imagined Zelda game with a fairly tough learning curve. Great animation and dungeons, a giant dangerous world to explore. A complete bargain at $5, let me tell you. Just to poke and prod a little, I will even go so far as to say it beats the crap out of Twilight Princess!
[/QUOTE]
Let's just say I'd stop short of calling it better than Twilight Princess (bet that surprises you!
).A few other posters hit the nail on the head on the pricing. Yes, yes, you are going to overpay for Urban Champions. But you are also getting tremendous value elsewhere.
-Rob
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Cataclysm1
- Posts: 103
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Virtual Console Crybabies
You guys saying, "But you can get X game on a compilation disk" or "You can get Y game cheaper on Ebay" are worse than the VC crybabies. You still don't really grasp the VC in its totality yet.
Consider that while Blu-Ray and HD-DVD fight a battle of midgets, Apple TV has snuck in as a top box. The future of media is going to be disc-less. YouTube is more popular than anything and its quality is worse than VHS. MP3 was worse quality than CDs but that didn't stop MP3 from taking over. VHS was dominant forever, despite superior offerings, but DVD was adopted not so much because of its better image but the convienance of it. No more "Be kind, rewind."
Many people would prefer to pay a more expensive price on VC than get the game cheaper from a compilation or Ebay. Most people are not game nerds. They do not want to have seven systems hooked up to one TV. There is great attraction to being able to hop in and out of a game without getting up from the chair. Plus, the VC games are adapted to today's TVs and are no longer interlaced monstrosities.
Super Mario Brothers is the most downloaded VC game. Why? Everyone who has a NES has Super Mario Brothers. The game has been available in many other formats including GBA. There is a value over ease of use that you guys are missing the boat on. People don't want to hook up their NES to play SMB. They'd rather pay $5 and play it whenever, however. Compilation discs are far better than hooking up multiple systems but the emulation on those discs are pretty crappy. And, again, you have to insert the disc everytime you want to play. Many people would rather buy Sonic 1 or 2 to be freed from the disc despite them having Mega Collection.
This thread is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Consider that while Blu-Ray and HD-DVD fight a battle of midgets, Apple TV has snuck in as a top box. The future of media is going to be disc-less. YouTube is more popular than anything and its quality is worse than VHS. MP3 was worse quality than CDs but that didn't stop MP3 from taking over. VHS was dominant forever, despite superior offerings, but DVD was adopted not so much because of its better image but the convienance of it. No more "Be kind, rewind."
Many people would prefer to pay a more expensive price on VC than get the game cheaper from a compilation or Ebay. Most people are not game nerds. They do not want to have seven systems hooked up to one TV. There is great attraction to being able to hop in and out of a game without getting up from the chair. Plus, the VC games are adapted to today's TVs and are no longer interlaced monstrosities.
Super Mario Brothers is the most downloaded VC game. Why? Everyone who has a NES has Super Mario Brothers. The game has been available in many other formats including GBA. There is a value over ease of use that you guys are missing the boat on. People don't want to hook up their NES to play SMB. They'd rather pay $5 and play it whenever, however. Compilation discs are far better than hooking up multiple systems but the emulation on those discs are pretty crappy. And, again, you have to insert the disc everytime you want to play. Many people would rather buy Sonic 1 or 2 to be freed from the disc despite them having Mega Collection.
This thread is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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