Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

General and high profile video game topics.
Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby Segatarious1 » February 19th, 2014, 7:51 pm

Let's just clear that up, a lot of people misconstrue that - on purpose.

Let's use this topic, as an example : http://videogamecritic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5084&t=12630

1. -Restoring some of my DLC transferred to my Wii U (I thought my Wavebird was a nice match with a couple N64 downloads).
2. -Accessing some Japanese exclusive Virtual Console releases like Mr. Do.
3. -Previewing some expensive WiiWare releases before buying them on my Wii U if I like them.

1. This 'DLC' read - VC games - user licenses were transferred to the Wii U, and then eliminated from the source Wii. So the party in question willingly signed off on a user agreement to transfer licenses, and now is going to 'restore' them - by dowloading ROMS from a 3rd party. Did the creators and contributes of the 'Home Brew Channel' acquire and maintain proper and legal license of the files they make available for download? No. It is illegal to redistribute games in this way.

2. 'Access' means steal - you are paying nothing for them, and the games are still under copy write, and are still being sold, in the proper,  legal way, in certain territories. The fact that they were not, or were not yet - released in your territory does not give you the right to 'access' them, from a third party, for nothing. Again, the owner of the copy write has not been compensated from your download.

3. This is the worst of the bunch. This means, instead of previewing the game in any sort of legal way - friends house, youtube, impressions topic, games review, demo etc , you download the entire game - again from a third party, without compensating anyone for their rights to their intellectual property. You may or may not ever pay them. How will they know? You subverted them, and deprived them fair and legal compensation for their work.

Pirates are the bane of gaming :

-They are nothing more then petty thieves, however the choose to rationalize.
-They give game makers excuses and incentive to load games with consumer harmful DRM
-They have greatly contributed to the premature decline of several game consoles, including the Wii.
- They contribute to the regrettable decline of physical media
- They do not compensate game makers, thus hamstringing game development
- They contribute to the general decline of the game industry, leaving less studios, less games, and less variety.

Do not pirate. You are ruining the industry. If you expect to be fairly treated by game companies, and have your rights fairly represented and lived up to, then YOU must do the SAME.

darkrage61
Posts: 1678
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby darkrage61 » February 19th, 2014, 10:53 pm

In general I don't support piracy, but the big problem is when gaming companies like EA and Ubisoft treat all their consumers like potential pirates with irritating DRM schemes. These restrictive DRM measures will do nothing to deter or decrease piracy and may in fact have the opposite effect. Take Spore for example, EA forced DRM into the game against creator Will Wright's wishes, as a result it was pirated over 500,000 times in protest of the DRM, I think it's pretty safe to say those numbers would've been a lot lower if there was no DRM like that in the game. 

Companies like CD Projekt Red are held in high regard by gamers because they don't believe in using DRM that treats their consumers like potential criminals, and as such even the likes of 4chan discourage people from pirating their games. 

So i'm sorry, but when a game company puts unnecessarily restrictive and cumbersone DRM in their games, then I really don't feel sorry for them when the game gets heavily pirated.  DRM is basically giving people an open invitation to get the game illegally.  I would argue DRM is ruining the industry a hell of a lot more then piracy is.

How exactly did piracy contribute to the Wii's decline(which I would hardly call "premature" as it still sells well today)?  I've never heard anything like that.


Edward1
Posts: 297
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby Edward1 » February 19th, 2014, 11:39 pm

In my opinion, it depends on if you have money or not.   If you have money, then by all means buy the game.  Empower the economy. If you work a minimum wage job, and are two months behind on the rent, then if I were a game maker, I could care less if someone in that situation pirated a game I made. At the very least, they could help get the word out about the game so other people can buy it. Also, you're not helping anyone if you get evicted because you spent your rent money buying games. Life is too short to put artificial moral limits on yourself when you aren't truly harming anyone, which would be the situation of gamers who live in or around the poverty line and can't afford games.  I know I won't get many people here to agree with me, but so be it.

Sut1
Posts: 789
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby Sut1 » February 20th, 2014, 6:36 am

I have a question, I've pretty much exhausted the UK Sega Saturn library (ie all the games I'm interested in I have purchased). Now I was looking to get it modded to play Japanese games as the Saturn has an attractive range of games not released in Europe.
But these games were never intended to be sold to me as a European, I was denied these games when the system was active. So is modding my system OK ? It wasn't designed to be used for Japanese games and the games weren't intended to be sold to me.

Atarifever1
Posts: 3892
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby Atarifever1 » February 20th, 2014, 6:40 am

Edward wrote:In my opinion, it depends on if you have money or not.   If you have money, then by all means buy the game.  Empower the economy. If you work a minimum wage job, and are two months behind on the rent, then if I were a game maker, I could care less if someone in that situation pirated a game I made. At the very least, they could help get the word out about the game so other people can buy it. Also, you're not helping anyone if you get evicted because you spent your rent money buying games. Life is too short to put artificial moral limits on yourself when you aren't truly harming anyone, which would be the situation of gamers who live in or around the poverty line and can't afford games.  I know I won't get many people here to agree with me, but so be it.

My response to the whole "I have no money" argument is "then play other, cheaper games." You can buy a PS2, with easy to find games, for like $20. You can play Team Fortress for free on almost any computer. There are great adventure games in flash. You can get tons of Steam indie games for under $5. I got Deus Ex on sale on steam for $2.49. The Wii, 360, and PS3 have piles of games being blown out now for $10 - $20.

The choice is not rent or games. The choice is rent or "The Last of Us." No one owes anyone "The Last of Us."

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby Segatarious1 » February 20th, 2014, 6:55 am

Wii and DS software sales began to decline very heavily after this 'homebrew' channel gained popularity. Imagine that. The 'homebrew' did not move as fast as the 'free' games. Many consoles have been devastated by piracy, including the Dreamcast, often by its staunchest 'supporters'.

The original DRM heavy Xbox One is, in large part, a response to piravcy. MS wanted all of their free loaders to suddenly pony up and pay $60 fro every game, and even have used game prices controlled in a company store. Game subscriptions and online passes also have their roots in combating piracy - you got the game for free, but you will not play it for free.

It goes both ways. I am always disgusted on how causally game consumers, brush off piracy. And no, being 'poor' is not an excuse. Games are a luxury, and the used game market - the legal one - provides opportunities for limited budgets. And it would be a laugh and a half to suggest that poverty is the primary 'cause' of piracy. 'Free' games and convenience are the primary causes of piracy.


velcrozombie1
Posts: 400
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby velcrozombie1 » February 20th, 2014, 9:10 am

I certainly won't defend piracy (although I readily admit that I don't care
much if a person commits piracy to play a game that can't be sold to them
and can't otherwise be imported), but you can take every single point in
your first post regarding why piracy is bad for the game industry (except
for the 'petty thieves' bit) and apply it to used games, and yet you seem
to have no problem with them.

Darkrage is also right: people who play games don't enjoy preemptively
being considered thieves, and whatever DRM is put in place will be cracked
anyway by the people who actually are pirates, so it helps to try and treat
your customers with respect. There's a problem when someone can go on a
torrent site and download a better product for free than the one that the
company is asking you to pay for. Having said that, a company putting out
a DRM product isn't an excuse to pirate a game; however, buying a
game crippled with DRM and then downloading a pirated copy so that you
could actually play the game without, say, being online at all times seems
like an acceptable workaround.

I also find it funny that you came into the Wii Homebrew thread declaring
it to be illegal, and when you found out that it wasn't you end up making
another thread to attack from a different angle.

Atarifever1
Posts: 3892
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby Atarifever1 » February 20th, 2014, 9:23 am

To further my "money is no excuse" argument, here is the current list of free (as in free, DRM free, and legally available this way) games from gog.com. 
http://www.gog.com/games##price=free

Ultima 4 is not a good enough game? 
Beneath a Steel Sky is not a good enough game? 
And they also sometimes give other games away as a promotion.  I got Duke Nukem that way. 

There's a self-contained demo for Bravely Default on the 3DS that people are getting 10+ hours out of, that has street pass features of its own.  Multiple times now they have given away Four Swords Adventure on the 3DS.  There's a free to play submarine game on there now too. 

World of Tanks is free on the 360 right now.  Getting PS+ gets you a ton of PS3 games for very little money overall. 

World of Warcraft is free to level 20 or something I believe. 

Need some 16-bit RPG type action?  How about Ahriman's Prophecy from Amaranth games?  100% legally free.

http://www.amaranthia.com/modules/oledrion/product.php?product_id=5

Slender is an incredible horror game.  Get it legally free right here:
http://www.slendergame.com/


Here's a $20 budget I did up on Amazon.ca for someone with a PS2:
Kingdom Hearts $10
Megaman X Collection $8.84

How many Megaman games is that?  Kingdom Hearts isn't a good game?

There is no money excuse here.  Games are plentiful, cheap, and easy to get.  If the specific game you want isn't cheap enough, here is some advice: wait.

I wanted Animal Crossing: New Leaf ages ago.  However, having a limited budget, me and my wife waited.  We ended up giving ourselves that game for Valentine's Day.  Take that in for a second.  We had to wait until Valentine's Day to give ourselves a $35 game.  I am practicing what I preach here.  We have a constrained budget.  We have 1.5 incomes, for a family of 4, a son with special needs, and one of the hottest housing markets in the Province.  I had much, much more disposable income when I was in University than I have now.  I still manage to get games because games are so incredibly affordable.  I do not feel entitled to specific games I cannot afford right this second.  If I can't afford them I do the unimagineable: I save or wait until they are cheaper.  

 








Atarifever1
Posts: 3892
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Modding and Homebrew is not neccesarily illegal, but Software Piracy is.

Postby Atarifever1 » February 20th, 2014, 9:33 am

velcrozombie wrote: Having said that, a company putting out
a DRM product isn't an excuse to pirate a game; however, buying a
game crippled with DRM and then downloading a pirated copy so that you
could actually play the game without, say, being online at all times seems
like an acceptable workaround.


I don't know about that.  See, my problem with the DRM argument is, a pirated copy (and companies get some statisitics on the number of pirated copies estimated) looks the same to a company, no matter why it was downloaded.  However, a pile of angry notes from customers, little piracy of the game, and terrible sales, look very different. That looks to a company like DRM was a factor in the game failing.  Pirated copies look like "not enough DRM" was the reason for the piracy and potential lost sales.


We could lose all DRM tomorrow, forever.  We could.  If everyone a) stopped getting games illegally, b) stopped buying games that had bad DRM, we would have absolutely zero DRM ever again.  That's it.  It goes away if companies see lost sales due to it, and no piracy.  The end.  Gone forever. 

Everyone is not going to stop downloading games illegally.  However, I think people can stop using that as a protest. Protest by not playing the game at all.  If enough people go that route, DRM will relax or go away.  Game programmers/developers will not want to see all their work being ignored by almost everyone, because that is not rewarding.  Publishers will not want to see the games not played by anyone because they will lose money.   


Return to “Video Games General”